Why We Need Reflection w/ Ashley Abercrombie & Caroline Brown

From Woke to Work: The Anti-Racist Journey

As we drive into this episode of From Woke to Work: The Anti-Racist Journey, let's first level-set where we are in our journey. We took a detour the last 2 weeks to take a WTF break to process the White Trumpian insurrection at the Capitol and then to talk about the importance of relationships in the quest for anti-racism. We're now moving into the back half and it will be important to take the discussion on relationships with you. The next 3 steps are rarefied air. By definition, a funnel gets less populated as you go deeper into it.

REFLECTION, in particular, is the level that will likely have the steepest amount of drop-off, because it is about going beyond the facts you know and the feelings you have, and finally confronting yourself. For non-Black people, and especially White people, this can be the most challenging step of all. This is the point you have to stop looking outward, and instead look inward; What role do you play in White supremacy? None of us sits outside of the system- we are all in it.

Kamala is joined on this episode by her friends and allies, Ashley Abercrombie, author, podcaster and clergy leader, and Caroline Brown, who recently launched the Up To Us Project, to highlight the importance of this stage in the formation of future allies. Listen now to learn about the importance of pondering on your own involvement within white supremacy, why white people should never take their voice for granted, and how to stand up and leverage your own privilege to impact the communities that need it the most. Don’t miss this authentic, vulnerable and inspiring conversation!

Jump straight into:

(00:45) - First comes reflection, then comes allyship - “We all have work to do because we've grown up and benefited from the system from day one.”

(09:13) - On white supremacy and why colorblindness does more harm than good - “An excellent way to take no action on racism is to try and not see race. That's the perfect setup for leaving everything exactly as it is.”

(17:43) - Veganism and anti-racism: How commitment, proactiveness and strong communities are needed to do the work - “Trying to do this work in isolation, especially as a white person, trying to be a single island of allyship in a culture of white supremacy is almost a recipe for failure.”

(22:59) - The conversations around racism inside Christian circles - “I have seen change and I have seen people go the distance and become autonomous and learn to think for themselves.”

(29:04) - The importance of questioning beliefs and leveraging your own privilege - “Think about all of the things that a black person can't control about, like their skin color and a number of other items that compound and have a negative impact on their outcomes.”

(39:00) - The Frequent Ally Question: Can you have white privilege, even if you aren't rich and can you still be guilty or complicit of racism, if you have never acted in ways that you yourself see as individually racist? - “There's an opportunity to really think through the way in which the system has benefited you, and the way that by default, you have gotten certain advantages or opportunities that others may not have gotten.”

Resources

Follow Ashley on Instagram

Why Tho Podcast

Rise of the Truth Teller by Ashley Abercrombie

The Up To Us Project

Helm’s White Racial Identity Development Model

Explaining White Privilege to A Broke White Person by Gina Crosley-Corcoran

Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to follow Kamala on Instagram to learn more. Subscribe, rate and share this podcast so more people can find it, let’s spread the word!

From Woke to Work is a show produced and hosted by Kamala Avila-Salmon in partnership with Julian Lewis and TJ Bonaventura at StudioPod. Edited at Nodalab, art by Tommy Gomez, and music produced by davecantrap.