S3E32 Spy Stuff

The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast

Our guest today is both a friend and a co-worker. John Kiriakou is a former CIA officer. After 9-11, John was part of the CIA’s covert team tasked with tracking down Al Qaeda’s leadership.

Abu Zubaydah

In March 2002, Pakistani forces with CIA support captured the man we thought was Al Qaeda’s number three: a man with the nom de guerre ABU ZUBAYDAH.

For the first 60 hours that we had Abu Zubaydah – as he recovered from severe wounds suffered during his capture, John Kiriakou was his handler.

He built up a relationship with Abu Zubaydah. A degree of trust.

Ultimately, Abu Zubaydah provided significant intelligence though, in the end, he wasn’t the number three at Al Qaeda. Despite those two facts, we waterboarded Abu Zubaydah 83 times.

John deplored the Agency’s turn toward torture. Heart sick over it, he ratted out the program. And then spent 18 months in federal prison for doing it.

John’s written a number of books about his CIA experiences. He’s made TV shows. And (here’s where the co-worker part kicks in) he and I are about to drop a new podcast together called PRISONER EX.

“Prisoner Ex” is about people who are in prison – here in America and around the world – but who shouldn’t be. The podcast’s mission is to tell all these stories, but, more importantly, its mission is to empower the audience and tell them specifically what they can do to help make these prisoners ex ex prisoners.

A Quick Note

A quick note for those who watch us on our YouTube channel – Alas, our visual elements this week – beyond this intro – are gonna be kinda sparse merging on non-existent.

We only ever think we have the technology. In point of fact, the technology always has us.

But. hey – on the bright side, if you experience this podcast sonically, you’ll never know the difference.

So – if you like spies and spy stuff, boy, is this episode’s right in your wheelhouse. Even if you don’t, this episode will open your eyes.

Here’s John…