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Karl Vaters interviews church leaders about the important issues of faith and ministry. It's called The Church Lobby because: The church lobby is where the church meets and does ministry. The church lobby moves conversations from the stage to the floor. The church lobby is a good place to take the temperature of a church’s health. Karl Vaters is the author of several books, including Small Church Essentials and The Grasshopper Myth. Formerly known as Can This Work In a Small Church?, this po ...
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show series
 
Small churches aren’t a problem to fix, they’re a unique part of the body of Christ that has gifts we need to embrace. Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of embracing what’s right about small churches, not in spite of being small, but because they’re small, in a conversation based on the content of Allen's book, The Gift o…
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Working a side hustle is no longer the exception for pastors, it’s the norm. Embracing it might answer a lot of your (and your church’s) needs. Karl Vaters talks with Jon Sanders about the rise in covocational pastoring and why it’s something more pastors, especially small-church pastors, should take seriously. Jon is the co-host of the EntrePastor…
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Why would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis? Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA. Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like: Their …
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Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense. Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, ho…
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In September and October over 1.2 million people will search online for “Trunk-or-Treat near me.” Here’s how to be one of the churches they find. Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about practical steps to help churches of any size put on a high-quality, gospel-centered Trunk-or-Treat event. Darrell is a small-church pastor in Oklahoma City and…
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Karl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about the content from his new book, Flyover Church: How Jesus’ Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere, for which Karl wrote the foreword. Topics include: How the rural church is different from the city and suburban church, not just in scale, but in type How metrics are very different in the rural church T…
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Sometimes pastors are our own worst enemy, so we need to recognize that God chose us for this work. There’s probably not a single pastor (at least not a long-term pastor) who can’t relate to the title of Craig T Owens’ latest book, When Sheep Bite: Help for Shepherd Leaders Who May Have Felt the Painful Bites. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talk…
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Karl Vaters talks with Frank Wooden about Microchurches. Frank has been a church planter for decades, but is now concentrating on the Microchurch model as a valid, healthy alternative in a changing cultural landscape. Karl and Frank talk about: What Microchurch is Why it’s so appealing right now Some cautions to be aware of Three reasons the Microc…
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Karl Vaters talks with Laurie Acker about the changing face of small church ministry, especially as it relates to recruiting, training, and relying on the volunteers who are so essential in helping small churches survive and thrive in a changing world. Laurie runs SmallChurchMinistry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for v…
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Pastoring in a post-Christian context is different. The more counter-cultural our faith becomes, the more important it is to understand that Christian consumerism is deadly and church cooperation is essential. Karl Vaters talks with Dan Nichols about these subjects, including: Negotiating a cultural shift in a longstanding church Partnering with ot…
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As we come to the end of our ten-part series based on De-sizing the Church, we’re highlighting portions of conversations Karl Vaters had with five church leaders from various backgrounds about their first reactions to reading the book. Drew Dyck (author and editor) talks about the dangers of Christian celebrity. Peyton Jones (author and church plan…
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Karl Vaters talks with Mike Rubino about his First Reaction to the first chapter of De-sizing the Church, The Danger of Idolizing Outcomes. Karl and Mike look at: The difference between a church that is trending or transforming The biggest mistakes churches make regarding metrics Why “idolatry” is not too strong a term for how many churches and pas…
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A conversation with Matt Steen about the potential dangers of replatforming fallen pastors too quickly. This is the first of three First Reaction episodes in which I talk to people who read advance copies of De-sizing the Church to get their response to some of the issues I raise in it. As the co-founder of Chemistry Staffing, which helps churches …
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Fame and celebrity have many downsides. But Daniel Darling brings a balanced approach to this subject by reminding us that fame is also what allows a good message to get through the clutter. In this episode, Karl talks with Dan about a Twitter thread Dan wrote expressing appreciation for the fame of Tim Keller. It was Tim Keller's platform and the …
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What happens when a pastor sets out, not to minister to people who look like him, but to purposely reach people who look as different from his current congregation as possible? That’s what Dave Gibbons, the founding pastor of Newsong Church in Orange County, CA did. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with him about the planting of Newsong, the chal…
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Meritocracy has become embedded in the American church. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about why this is dangerous, how to notice the warning signs of a toxic church culture, the problems with being or following a narcissistic leader, and more. Scot McKnight is the co-author (with Laura Barringer) of A Church Called Tov:…
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Karl Vaters interviews Bob Smietana, a columnist for Religion News Service, and the author of Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters. Bob and Karl discuss some of unintended consequences of the Church Growth Movement from Bob's unique vantage point. They also delve into the dangers of bigness and what we can d…
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If small church pastors have a modern patron saint, Eugene Peterson might be it. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Peterson’s biographer, Winn Collier about the places where Winn’s book, A Burning in My Bones: The Authorized Biography of Eugene H. Peterson, Translator of The Message, overlaps with Karl's book, De-sizing the Church. They talk …
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One of the biggest dangers of our obsession with church size is the rise of the Christian celebrity culture. Katelyn Beaty is the author of Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church. Katelyn defines celebrity as “social power without proximity.” In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Katelyn about what…
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We have an unhealthy relationship with bigness in the church. Especially in the American church. And it’s killing us. The rate of church closures, departing members, and pastoral burnout is growing exponentially. This is the first episode of a series of podcasts based on Karl Vaters’ new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Scienc…
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Have you ever felt like your church is “less than” because you don’t have a worship experience with the talented musicians you’ve seen in larger churches? According to Teresa Stewart, not only is that not needed for an excellent worship experience, but the small church actually has advantages that are not always available to our big-church friends.…
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Ian Borkent is a pastor in the Netherlands who walked through a season of ministry burnout and now helps pastors address this issue in their own lives through the ministry of Grow a Healthy Soul. In this episode we’ll talk about the causes of pastoral burnout, how to avoid it, and how to recruit church members to the task of helping pastors by empl…
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Our brains are the most important, but least understood part of our body. In this episode, Karl Vaters interviews Michel Hendricks about the fascinating place where faith and brain science intersect. Michel is the co-author (with Jim Wilder) of The Other Half of Church: Christian Community, Brain Science, and Overcoming Spiritual Stagnation, which …
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This is the second of two very special episodes that we’re doing in back-to-back weeks instead of our usual bi-weekly schedule. This episode features the message I preached in January 2024, on the day our church honored Shelley and me for our 31 years of serving the church on staff. In this message, I talked about what we’re doing next, including w…
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This is the first of two very special episodes that we’re doing in back-to-back weeks, instead of our usual bi-weekly schedule. In January 2024, Karl and Shelley Vaters were honored by their home church as they ended 31 years on the pastoral staff—25 years as lead pastor, six years as teaching pastor. This, and the next episode of The Church Lobby …
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A little over a year ago, A.I. came into our lives in a big way. Suddenly, it seemed to be everywhere. Karl Vaters talks with Jason Moore about what A.I. is, why it came into our lives so suddenly, and what its strengths and dangers are. Then they spend the bulk of this slightly longer-than-usual episode with Jason physically walking us through usi…
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Everyone has an opinion about live streaming, pro or con. As I sift through it, I only want to give a platform to the most helpful, thoughtful voices, and Tim Fox is one of them. In this podcast, we talk about the content of a Facebook post Tim wrote that challenged the reasons most churches live stream their services, while offering some thoughtfu…
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Pastors need to read, not just for information, but for formation. Austin Carty and Karl Vaters cover topics like: The importance of reading many types of books, not just works of theology and leadership How reading helps us become more mature, wise, and caring How reading the Bible with a sense of wonder helps embed its truths into our lives How i…
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Just showing up in people’s lives is such an important aspect of life and ministry. Karl Vaters talks with Drew Dyck about why this is so important, as outlined in Drew’s new book, Just Show Up: How Small Acts of Faithfulness Change Everything (A Guide for Exhausted Christians). Including: The value of our physical presence in pastoral ministry The…
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Burnout is a huge issue among pastors. But did you know there’s a simple (but not simplistic) way to start addressing and reducing burnout? And that your congregation can help you with it? That’s the premise of Karl's conversation with Josh Taylor, based on his book, A Preach Well Church: How Churches Can Stop Burning Out Pastors. Josh and Karl tal…
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There are so many books about how to turn a lifeless church around. Most concentrate on the pastor’s role. But what about the role of the congregation members? In small churches, this is especially important. Karl Vaters talks with Bud Brown about how to help the congregation become agents of life and hope in a dying church through the power of pra…
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In a recent survey, 80 percent of respondents said "yes" to the question, “since serving on a church board, do you feel your spiritual life has declined?” Why is this happening, and what can be done about it? In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Dave Beckwith about How to Turn Your Board Meetings Into God Meetings, including How our current corp…
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