2023 Roofing Report - Where the Roofing Industry is and How to Stand Out in A Saturated Market

Mission Control Podcast

On this episode, Mike has on Corey Combes of SouthShore roofing! The guys go over what's becoming of the roofing industry and where the guys would like to see it go.

They deep dive into sales, marketing, production, labor, and the roofing industry overall! They discuss how front-end marketing work is so different from actual construction.

A huge aspect of the discussion is how to sell to customers in a highly competitive marketplace. Why should customers choose you EVEN when you are the more expensive option?

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: yes i've been struggling with it's got trust issues you know i think it that's what my therapist says anyways and you know mainly i don't trust stairs they're always up to something well well back to the mission control podcast with your host yours truly mike sterns ascendant agency inquiry calls What up, Cory?

Corey: What's going on, Mike? So that's the new thing, man. You got to gag jokes to start the show.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: I mean, maybe, maybe it's a thing. I'm just trying to go viral like the rest of the kids. Because that's the big thing, right? Like, if you go viral, you made it, right? Isn't it so important just to go viral?

Corey: Yeah, I mean, I guess if you're looking for, you know,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Er

Corey: 30

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: naw.

Corey: seconds of fame. If you're looking for 30 seconds of

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Like,

Corey: fame, I guess

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: you

Corey: it

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: know,

Corey: is.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: I gotta be honest, I went viral. Acc- I went viral accidentally. Wasn't even trying. My guess made it so easy. Shout out to Heather Hitchcock. Went viral and I was thinking, you know what? The next morning, my wife's gonna find me more attractive. The blues and greens are gonna be bluer and greener and the sun was gonna be sunnier. It wasn't. And I didn't get any leads. Okay? So. uh... don't chase our reality it can help you but doesn't necessarily is that a precursor to success it's all good you wanna you know if you want to go viral fantastic if not it's fine to you'll make it without it Let's do some spicy shit. You got some hot takes, you got some things that have been festering maybe, maybe bothering you a little bit you wanna talk about on this here show?

Corey: Yeah, I think the thing that's bothering me the most and has been bothering me the most that I've talked to quite a few people about recently is everybody, so I was put in a position where somebody asked me to give them my opinion on a new business venture, right?

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Mm-hmm.

Corey: And what I realized is In this industry, everybody is hyper-focused on the sales side and the marketing side. And I'm pretty salty about that because it seems to me that it's become, you know, production and labor has become a by-product of the sales and marketing side, which it's exactly the inverse. You, you know, your, your primary function in this industry is to you know, be confident at whatever you're doing, whether it's roofing, siding, windows. And it seems to me that there's been a real dilution, I guess would be a word I would use in the importance of the production side. And we're starting to see it more and more. And it's really bothering me. And so every time I talk to somebody that's quote unquote a consultant, and we start digging into what they're consulting about, it's all front end stuff, has nothing to actually do with running a construction company. And I'm kind of tired of it, honestly. Shout

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Mmm.

Corey: out to Matt Deskin. He's launching something that he's trying to bring, I think a little bit more focus and light on, a holistic approach to. to the industry, because I asked him if they were going to focus on production and he said, yes, we are. I'm going to bring somebody in that's much more competent to talk about it than I am. I was like, oh, thank God, man. So that's, you know, that's really.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Is that what you said, I accept your invitation?

Corey: You know, I'm in the midst of revamping my... Yeah, no, I'm in the midst of revamping mine. It's challenging, man. I mean, the production side is really challenging and for people to really sort of just discount it, I just don't like it, man. That's all.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: yeah it's oxen it's hard up with the industry when if you know people are just solely focused on seven years the parallel between that and what i do writing and running an agency and everyone's like i got a new sales funnel and i'm gonna get all these leaders all these customers and i'm like the the back in production is dog shed and people a marketing companies which uh... it can be challenging because then about apple rooms a bushel but if the full bushel ron london the one good one on there's like, fuck, I'm not rotten yet. Not that that's me or anything. I mean, it's me, okay? It's my show, I'll say what I want. So I could see why that would be frustrating. It's hard, right? Like it's, it's kind of like, you know, I said this before, you cannot work a bad diet. and it's like you cannot sell shitty production because that's ultimately going to tarnish your brand it's gonna lead to more challenges in roadblocks when it comes to acquiring new customers at some point whether it's tomorrow year from now two years from now it's gonna make it more challenging right

Corey: You see it all the time. You see it all the time in these companies that they're sales organizations. They're not construction companies. And I'm a lifer in this industry, so I'm a little protective of it. And I think just like you and I had a conversation, I don't know, a few months ago, when I first started my company, I was like, I'm just gonna keep my head down and do my thing. And I wanna have a successful company. And I really wasn't too worried about the competition. And then I got to the point where I'm seeing all these people flooding my state, flooding my town, putting these Facebook posts up looking, selling all these jobs and they don't have anyone to produce them or you go out there and you know they're not insured and they're using all these labor that's not quality. I was like, you know what? My focus now is I'm going to put these fuckers out of business. You know, I'm gonna go in hard and heavy on my marketing. I'm gonna go in hard and heavy, and I'm gonna do my best to starve these people out because they do not deserve to be in my market.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: mmm hot damn guns blazing i wish i had like a little pimp you pimp you uh... but but i don't so uh... time to upgrade the mixer uh... yeah i i did it since frustrating it's frustrating and i'm sorry going through it um... i like the sound you increase in your marketing whoever's your marketing company they're probably delighted to hear that uh...

Corey: Yeah, Monday night we had a long conversation about how we were going to work that out.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: uh... your marketing company talks to you at night time after hours uh... good for them

Corey: Yeah, I know.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: so all right well i mean fuck it in the spirit of spiciness i'll participate

Corey: Let's go.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: i'm tired of the clicky nature of some of the aspects of the online roofing community uh... it feels like sometimes like a high school dance you know and it's like What happened? Why can't we just have like a meritocracy? And you know, and uplift each other, the ones that are doing well, and you know, kinda like, I don't wanna say starve the other ones out, I guess I don't want anyone to starve, Cory, but, you know, it's frustrating. It is. It really is. You know? And there's dozens of instances of it, but, yeah, that's my gripe today.

Corey: I think that having... It's, you know, that community is not fundamental or instrumental or critical to my business. So it's a little bit easier, you know, it's a little bit easier that I don't, you know, it doesn't really rub me the wrong way as much. I will tell you, the most successful, higher volume, good companies that I know, kind of use that as kind of a fish tank and just watch what's going on and just let it be what it is. And

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah.

Corey: so I've learned that a lot of what goes on in there is puffery. I was talking with somebody else in the industry and we were kind of bashing somebody that's pretty prominent in that saying we've watched them over the last three or four years starting out, had no idea what they were doing, kept making mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake. and are still around, which is really quite funny to us because I don't know anybody that's actually had a lot of success with them. It's kind of interesting. And so I think you just gotta take it for what it is.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah, well that's how we take it. It's the only thing that you can do. And it's fine, it's okay, we're doing all right. We're doing just fine, it's gonna be all right. But it's just,

Corey: Yes.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: there's a disproportionate, I think, level of scrutiny, especially to marketing companies in the community. And I'm biased here, I might be biased. Maybe I need to pull up my bootstraps and stop being so... Stop being so emotional. But, you know, I just, I see a lot of companies and I hear repeated stories of failure with particular companies, agents, folks. And it's like, that's weird. I never hear anything about that. Ever.

Corey: Yeah, I mean, you know, I screw up, you know, I dent somebody's gutters, you know, they go out and they blast me on every single platform that they possibly can, even though we've put, you know what I mean? Like we've put out, you know, we've like, look, we'll replace your gutters for you or whatever. But some people will just continue to ruin, you know, people's lives and businesses and nobody says a word about them or somehow they seem to manage the damage. It's unfortunate, man. And I think more and more we're seeing people are just kind of getting set up with some of the, some of the online stuff, more and more people are talking out against it more and more people are, you know, blasting new people that come into these Facebook groups on the roofing groups. And so I think that people are getting to a point where they're seeing the fallibility of it. And I think the real problem though, is there are some people that are bringing a ton of value. And. There are some people that

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Oh yeah.

Corey: have a great message. Yeah, there are people that have a great message and can help a ton, but they're getting drowned out by the people that are more popular and not the most competent or have the best things to say or even the best voice, they're just more popular. There's a big difference. And you mentioned going viral at the beginning of this podcast. This probably won't go viral because nobody wants to hear two guys sitting around just bitching about. you know, what the industry has become. So my, you know, I'm dealing with some production issues, you know, and I talk a lot about production and it's complicated, especially at scale. You know, if you're doing three roofs a week, it's really easy to do. If you're doing five roofs a week, it's still pretty easy to do. You're doing 15 to 20 roofs a week, it's... really difficult to manage all that. And so, we've gone through some growth, we've gone through some scaling issues and playing catch up and so I'm kind of revamping some of my processes right now to handle some of the issues we've continued to see and I'm revamping some of my personnel. And so we're staying solution minded these days and that's where focusing on the problem is really easy to do. and bitching about the problem is really easy to do. Putting your big boy pants

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Mm.

Corey: on, getting in there and getting dirty, figuring out the issues, and then executing the solutions is really where people, where we lose a lot of people, right? So that's why I feel pretty good and pretty confident in my place in the industry because faced with challenges, we always figure it out. And that's, I think, a reason why we've continued to grow. I think that's the reason you've continued to grow. And I think that's why the really good people continue to grow and they have a lot less to say because they're busy working on their own house.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Mmm. Hmm. Nope, that ain't it. No. Nope. Nope. There it is. The crowd applauded you for that. I gotta get better with these things, god damn it. I keep hitting

Corey: Label

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: the

Corey: them.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: miscues.

Corey: Label them.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Uh, I mean it might go viral. It might go viral. Come on guys, make it go viral. I don't, so it's important to note, like this isn't a show where we sit around and bitch. This is just a spicy Thursday. where we're gonna talk about some of the things that, you know, we typically otherwise wouldn't talk about. It's all good. Doesn't mean that this thing's devolved into a shit show of of Mike being disheveled and bringing on people just to talk that shit. We're just, uh, we're having fun with it. So, yeah. It's all good.

Corey: The solution,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: So let's add some value.

Corey: yeah, okay, so the solution, the solution is always has to be top of mind. And so the solution is, in my case, I got tired of seeing these low cost, low value, low quality companies going in and selling against my sales guys, which funny thing is, is they're not really selling, right? They're trying to compete on price, and they're trying to show people essentially there's nothing else to be looking at other than just the price on the estimate. And so the solution was, is we figured out how to get in there and show the differences of why you're going to pay a little bit more for a quality company. And that has allowed us to really increase our closing percentages. And that's allowed me to have the revenue to pay my marketing company a lot more money to drown these guys out in the digital space. And then also our referral game, we've really worked on over the last few months, we've really worked on dialing in our referral game and putting some products in place where we can hit every facet of the market, the lower cost facet, the middle and the higher. And so now, Chuck Tokey said something that really resonated with me. He said, the guy at the table with the most options wins. So I have made it a point to become the guy with the most options so that we walk away from the table with a signed contract every single time.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: I like that. Let me

Corey: Yeah.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: ask you this. Because a lot of people don't have processes. They don't have a system. They don't have processes within that system. A lot of people, some of the rest, will create processes. But a very few percentage of contractors that I've dealt with, and I mean, whatever, the sample size is probably around a thousand, I would say, of contractors that I've dealt with, manage the process. They have a system, they have processes, and they manage those people and those processes. What's the first sign for the younger folks here or the folks that are just launching a sales process? What's the first sign that your team is deviating from your sales process?

Corey: Are we assuming that you're tracking your sales team?

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Big assumptions, but yes, we're gonna assume we're tracking their production.

Corey: I think if you have a sales process and you do a good job of training that sales process and you're tracking your sales team, I think the first indicator is that the closing percentages are wildly off. Meaning there's, you know, between your reps, there's a big disparity between what one sells and what the other sells. I think that's the first indicator. One of the things that I say to my sales team all the time One of the things that I say to my sales team all the time is, you know, I hire personalities. So I know these guys have the gift to talk and to gab, and they have the right personality to sell, right? And so

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Mm-hmm.

Corey: they're given a process and a presentation and a set of products that are the best in the market and on the market. And if you're following everything to a T, there should not be that big deviation. in sales, in sales closing percentage.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah. Sure. How long do you need to notice that to determine it's not just an anomaly? Like, what's the time, the sample size, to where it's like, okay, Mike had a bad week versus Mike's not fucking doing what he's supposed to be doing.

Corey: Well, the answer to that is if you're not tracking your sales team appropriately, it's going to be harder in the time span between you figuring that out and when you actually need to do something about it, it's going to be a lot longer. And what I mean by that is if you're managing their activities and you're tracking their activities and not just their closing percentage, you're going to have your thumb on that a lot better. than if you're just every month at the end of the month looking at their closing rate.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Okay.

Corey: Does that make sense?

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: but how do you it does but how do you do that without them feeling like without turning them into a rebellious teenager right you put down so many rules of micromanage the point where the kids making out the door or speaking out the window at ten p m after honestly you know i hear your sales reps going wrong because you're micromanaging the shit out of them so how do you manage to do that successfully

Corey: Well, you don't micromanage the shit out of them. I mean, you just put some benchmarks in place. Like for an example, you know, we use a CRM and we have three workflows that are dedicated to the sales team. And in one of those workflows, which, you know, as a matter of fact, we just figured out how to track their presentations with a piece of technology because that was the big, that was sort of the big blind spot. We were... we're expecting them to report on how many presentations they did by putting their customer in that workflow on the CRM, which you and I both know sales teams are just real dog shit at doing that. You know? So

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Sorry sales guys.

Corey: what we've had to do is just use pieces of technology that have analytics on them so we can just look at everything Our team doesn't feel like they're being micromanaged, but we can make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. And then at the end of the month, we have a report card. We have a certain set of benchmarks on the report card that we need them to hit. And we let them know, like, look, you're gonna get a certain amount of leads. You're expected to do a certain amount of presentations out of that certain amount of presentations. You're expected to have so many follow-ups and so many sales. And on your follow-ups, you're expected to have so many sales out of your follow-ups. And we just track those benchmarks. And it's not micromanaging, it's just making sure that let's say I have one of my sales guys that just has a really bad month. If he's doing all of the things that he's supposed to be doing and he still has a really bad month, it's gonna be a different conversation than if he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing and he has a really bad.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: right it's still the place else people typically when you start trying to to hold them accountable to certain activities to roll up into this greater thing which is like what are you doing in sales revenue-wise it's okay we're gonna create a plan and a plan we're gonna have a monthly plan a weekly plan a daily plan the word start breaking down your day and saying i want these benchmarks mad i want these things but most people can get a sales rep to put anything into a CRM. They can't document the follow-up. They don't do the basic necessities, let alone document milestones throughout the day. That's all I meant by how you do it without it being micromanaging. I think that people struggle with that. Maybe they don't. I don't know.

Corey: We've they can't operate they can't operate in our system without doing certain things so right off the bat they're trained on how to do their job and The sequencing and how they do their job It is It is tracked through our CRM and some of the other things that we do So it doesn't seem like they're being micromanaged like I'll give you an example like the first thing when we hire, you know, when I hire a salesperson and when we, you know, start training them, before I give them over to my sales manager, I meet with them before they start their training. And the first thing that we talk about is hierarchy of responsibilities. All right? And I let them know what my responsibilities are as an owner, and I let them know what their responsibilities are as a salesperson or, you know, 100% commission sales rep. And the number one thing on that hierarchy of responsibility for me is to put them in a position for them to excel and make money. The number one thing on their hierarchy is to make money. Number one. Right. And the reason I just make that distinction between, you know, my responsibility and their responsibility, because me as an owner. It's up to me to put them in that position, in that system, in that process, to where they can be successful. Their job is to operate in that process and make money. Because if they're making money, I'm making money.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Mm-mm.

Corey: Right? It's a natural,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah.

Corey: you know, it's just a natural consequence of them doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: So then why do you get, you know, let's go with that for a minute. They're making money, you're making more money. So why is it that it seems to be such an issue with people getting paid for their commissions, like when they go to leave a company or having falling outs? Why is that so? It seems to be pretty pervasive in the roofing industry.

Corey: It's not pervasive in my company. I mean, we, you know, everybody that we've severed ties with has gotten every penny they're owed. I think it comes down to like the integrity and the morality of the company, first and foremost. But then I think it also comes with a really clear agreement on, you know, how they're getting paid, what they're getting paid and when they're getting paid and what it looks like if you sever ties. And we have an employment agreement that lays all that out. and I sign it and they sign it. So technically, if they want to come back and I'm dealing with it right now, you know, with somebody we severed ties with and we had some disagreements and we're working it out, we had to do it through some attorney, you know, we had to do it through attorneys, but it is what it is, man. I don't ever... I don't ever want to, if I have a sales rep that does their job and we just sever ties for whatever reason, it doesn't work out, maybe they're not producing what we need, whatever, I'm never going to keep their money. I mean, they did their job on the front end, as long as the job was sold correctly, that commission belongs to them, period. No matter what, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to lean on like, oh, you know, we. If you don't work for the company anymore, I don't owe you the money. I don't think that's right. So I can only speak for me and what's happened throughout the industry. It's just, you know, these, it's just, it's unethical and these guys don't have any integrity.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: when it be easy for companies you know to try to save face and save money and say you know well we thought you sold it you know the right way but upon you know actually completing the bill there there were issues and it actually wasn't sold the right way therefore we're not paying

Corey: You can, I mean, you can do that. And sometimes that's the case. I mean, I've had that happen and I had to send, I sent out the P&L and showed them what the cost on the job was and where the margin hit. And I paid them whatever the appropriate commission was on it. So

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: I like

Corey: you

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: that.

Corey: can do that. You can do that. But I think for me to sleep at night, I'm gonna send them all the documentation so that they know what happened. And I think even further than that, because of the litigious nature of everybody, I'm covering my bases too.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah. So if I'm a roofing sales rep, you mentioned there's red flags typically with these companies. Like what are some of the red flags I can look for when I'm trying to land with a new home with a new roofing company?

Corey: The biggest red flags are, do they have a real defined agreement with the sales staff? Do they have a really clear role? Do they have a really clear commission and a really clear either 1099 or employment agreement? That's the first thing. The next thing is, what's their training look like? And then the next thing is, is the Do they have high turnover on their sales staff? What is their sales manager like? How does the sales manager keep tabs on you? I mean, do they give you those expectations upfront on how they're tracking, logging, and holding you accountable for your production? How are they showing you how the jobs are costed out so you know if your job meets a margin or not? So there's a lot of things to look at before you jump on with a... with a new roofing company.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Interesting. What's a question that you would ask a marketing company before you hire them?

Corey: That question's changed quite a bit over the years. Now the question I would ask them is, what do you have in place for your clarity and transparency so I know how my marketing is doing month over month?

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Okay. I think that's really important. I think transparency is important. I mean, when you talk about marketing, you said your sales process, and you show how it's not apples to apples. You've got these players that are selling on cost, and it's not even in the same realm as far as quality components being installed, or warranties associated with the products, or lack thereof, and insurance being carried or not carried. It's the same thing with like websites and SEO and stuff like that. And it's tough dude, because you know, a lot of folks, I think a lot of salespeople, I've been in a few different sales environments and what seems to be a commonality is that most people can't sell value. They simply can't. And you know, especially in corporate settings, they bring in young kids that seem to have some sort of charisma. no regard for moral compass or ethics or integrity, right? It's just, okay, you can have a conversation without making people feel incredibly awkward, so we're gonna bring you on and we're gonna teach you our corporate sales process.

Corey: Alright.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: And you know, it's not, it's, I'm gonna sell you on price, I guess, you know, it's $400 a month, you want it? Like it's gonna, we're gonna add, you said you wanna do another two million in revenue and you said you needed X amount of leads and not X amount of leads, you'd close X amount of jobs, right? It's good, we could do that, let's do this. And it's like, My advice, if you take nothing else away from this podcast today, is if something seems too good to be true, it likely is, and investigate the shit out of it, and don't just fall victim to confirming your hope that it is true. Try to be as objective as possible when you're analyzing those types of situations, because likely there's not a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, there's a pile of shit. So...

Corey: I think the challenge you guys face in your industry is much different than the challenge we face. Like I said, when you first asked the question, my questions to a marketing company now are going to be much different than they were early on because I didn't understand or know the value of having somebody that was really good at what they do versus somebody that either seemed good or gave me a sales pitch. But you saw my Google ads when you first took them over. It was pretty comical, right?

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah,

Corey: And

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: that's

Corey: so

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: great. What does the dog say? Roof, call now.

Corey: yeah, I mean,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: No joke.

Corey: yeah, no,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: That

Corey: I

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: was

Corey: was

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: the

Corey: getting,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: headline for his Google Ads. Yeah.

Corey: yeah, I mean, I was getting leads for sun roofs. I was getting lead for RV roofs. I was getting leads for all that stuff. So it was. I was dumping money down the trash on this stuff. But early on the question is, is how much do I have to spend and how many leads can you get me? Those were the questions, right? But that's a really simplistic way to look at it. Now it's a lot more educated with questions on what we're doing, what the campaigns look like, who we're attracting, how do we track this, what... you know, what tracking is in place? How are we monitoring this? How are you reporting this to me? But I didn't know all those things until I got with a quality company that actually showed me that's the important stuff to look at, right? And it's the same way with these homeowners. And the reason I say that your challenge is a little different than mine, because I can actually show the real world tangible consequences to homeowners when they choose a bad company. It's much harder for you to do that, right? Like I have pictures and examples and news stories and all of this stuff to show what happens when homeowners choose the cheap guy, right? You have a much more uphill battle.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Yeah, yeah, that's true. But to your point, as far as having measures and softwares and things in place that we can not only demonstrate, but emphasize transparency in what's going on and have it document, it's not much different than how you would use a CRM, because ultimately we wanna optimize everything that we can. I don't mean that as far as like search engine optimization, whatever it is that we're doing for someone, we want to make it better. Same way that like whatever you guys are doing, you want to aim to get it better. If you're closing percentage on an aggregate. throughout all your reps over 12 months is 30%. You're probably gonna look at it like, hey, with the same amount of ad spend, with the same amount of volume, how could we make more revenue? We could eke that up to 35%. How do we get a 20% increase in our closing rate or a 10% increase, right? But with the absence of data, without being able to look back on that data and deduce what's happening, why it's happening, is it different leads are converting from different channels better? You don't know you're flying blind and it would be the same thing for us. How can a company possibly optimize ads or consulting or you know Google SEO website whatever if they don't have their shit documented and if they have a document and they're not sharing it with you why why I ask

Corey: Yeah, no. And the thing is, is that these people don't know what they don't know. You know, the same thing for our customers, same thing for your customers. They just, you know, my, in my instance, I just didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know any, I didn't know anything about digital marketing. I didn't know anything about, you know, how to optimize this stuff. I didn't know anything about SEO. I didn't know anything about that. Right. And nor do I really want to know the meat and potatoes of it. Like I really don't care. What I want to know. Is my money being spent well? Am I getting a good return? That's what I need to know. And so, I mean, I'll be honest with you. I don't even look at your reports anymore. I just, you

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Nah,

Corey: know.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: shit. And 80% of the time you're talking, Mike, I don't listen either, so...

Corey: No, that's not true. I mean, you've brought up some things that you're like, look, you really need to put this in place. And I worked on putting it in place and, you know.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Thanks.

Corey: And it wasn't until you said, hey, you need to put this in place. And I'm like, OK. And then I put it in place. I actually didn't see the value in it until I actually put it in place and started to see really how valuable that information was for me in order to make decisions. And I'll tell you. So here's one example. You asked earlier on how we know if the sales rep is just the one sales rep or if it's an issue across the sales team. And the first thing is looking at closing rates for sure. But the next thing is, you have to look at trends over time. Because if you have a knee-jerk reaction to a bad month, then you could end up actually causing more problems. And so. I kept my sales staff in place. We started looking at the overall numbers across the board in three month increments. And then what I realized after about five months is there was an issue with the sales team overall because all of the numbers were just so all over the place. And it changed the tone of my sales meeting because then I started asking more questions to my sales team. to find out who's doing what consistently and figuring out if everybody had the same answers. Turns out they didn't. And so I figured out that we had given too much autonomy to the sales team. And we gave them that autonomy and the sales process wasn't being followed the way that it needed to be followed in the sequencing that it needed to be followed. And so now that we've, so starting back in December, I've really been spending a lot of time with my sales team, scripting everything out, training them, retraining them, I should say, role playing with them, really hammering home the whole sales process piece by piece by piece. And the weird thing that's happened is our overall closing rate went from about 35%. Uh, March, we were at 4706 overall already in April. Uh, I have one guy that's at 73%.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: so let's put that into perspective real quick as we get a hard stop in two minutes so an additional twelve percent in closing rates of what does that mean dollars wise to the company

Corey: Oh, that's, I mean, that's probably revenue. That's probably half a million.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Congratulations, you just made another... the company just got an extra half a million dollars in revenue. That's amazing, dude!

Corey: Yeah,

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: It's s-

Corey: I mean, if you look at across each sales rep, I mean, I've got eight sales reps, right? I mean, so a 10% increase for each rep is pretty huge. I mean, that's averaged out, right? So some had a higher, some had a lower, but

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: Sure.

Corey: averaged out. Yeah, yeah, it's about a half million a rep.

Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency: I wanna raise. That's it here today folks. Thank you so much Cory for your time. Always a pleasure. We will have another episode coming soon. I promise you that. With Cory Combs because we got a lot more to talk about. We're just... It's time prohibitive today so we got what we could out of this. This was fantastic. Hope everyone enjoyed and thanks again for your time Cory.

Corey: Thank you, man.