The Why and When of Quitting.

Tough Things First

“Loud quitting” is just foolish, but smart career moves can be a ladder to job satisfaction and success. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn talks about how changing jobs is a skill in itself, and future employers will follow the trail. Will it send a good or bad message? (Watch Video Podcast Here…)

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Rob Artigo: Well Ray, when I was a reporter in Reno, I got to know a guy named Kenny Guinn. He was the governor of Nevada. He was also a very wealthy businessman. I was talking to him and I told him that I was looking at a possible job offer in Fresno, and he did this very… I remember this vividly. He put his arm on my shoulder and he said, “If it’s a step up, take it,” and I didn’t take the job because it was really a step sideways. Fresno to Reno is really a step sideways, at least in radio it’s a step sideways. So I didn’t take it and I’ve always appreciated that advice, because it changed… It kept me on course for success in radio.

So Ray, for starters, let me just ask you, when do we know when it’s the right time to make a good career move?

Ray Zinn: Well, there are three reasons why we change jobs. One is, as you talked about, a step up to get a promotion, to get more pay or some advancement reason. The second is because you don’t like the job, you don’t like the company, you don’t like your boss. There’s a “don’t like” problem. That’s number two. Number three is is you want to relocate. In other words, you want to stay… Instead of living in Fresno or Sacramento, you want to live in Chicago.

So those are the three reasons. The advancement, it’s a “don’t like” situation where you don’t like the boss, company. Maybe you don’t like where you live either, but anyway. Then the third of course is that you want to change locations. Sometimes it’s because you want to be closer to family or because educationally it’s more advantageous to be at a certain area because of the schools you want to attend. So those are the three reasons why you want to change your occupation.

Rob Artigo: I would imagine you want to relocate because of the weather sometimes, and here in California it’s pretty hot.

Let’s bring in Zen of Zinn III. It’s one of your books, it’s part of your… This Zen of Zinn III is the third book in your series, Zen of Zinn, which has a bunch of nice short writings in it, and it’s an entire book that covers a bunch different topics, but a lot of wisdom in there.

Check out the bottom of page 25. It says, “Changing jobs can be both a benefit and a hindrance. If you’re considering changing employers, consider the following,” and there’s two points here on the next page. “Point one, don’t be a chain job changer. Changing jobs every couple of years is viewed negatively,” and also number two, “Don’t make a move unless the total compensation is at least 20% more than you are currently making.” It’s easy for me to say.

Ray, so let’s check out number one here. Tell me about being a chain job changer, and you as an employer and a person who has hired a lot of people in your lifetime, tell us how that negatively impacts a person’s resume and their potential employment with you.

Ray Zinn: Well, looking at it from the employer’s point of view, it’s expensive to train a person. Also, there’s an adjustment period where they have to get adjusted to the new job, the new area, and that’s a distraction. So if you’re a chain job changer, then that means that you’re going to be an expensive employee, because the company’s going to have to spend a lot of time and money training.

They say in war that don’t kill your enemy, wound them, it takes two to carry him off the field. So a chain job changer is like a wounded soldier. It takes people to help bring him on board, to train him, to get accustomed to the new software, the new… Just everything’s new, and so a chain job changer, I know it’s like Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, whatever.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, right.

Ray Zinn: Like that, it’s hard to say “chain job changer,” but it’s an expensive thing for an employer, and it also, probably more importantly, it shows you’re not loyal. Companies like loyal employees, and so loyalty is an extremely important attribute for employees.

We had the lowest turnover in our industry at Micrel, the company that I founded and ran for 37 years, and the reason we were so efficient was because we hired steady employees, people who are solid, people who are not chain job changers.

So anyway, that’s the key. The key is show your loyalty, show that you’re willing to work with your supervisor or the company, because there’d be good times, there’d be bad times, and so we like loyal employees.

Rob Artigo: Well, number two, here is a financial question and you put a number on it. You say 20%. You say, “Make sure that if you’re moving for more money, moving jobs for more money, make sure that it’s 20% more than you’re currently making.”

Ray Zinn: Yes, because again, moving for a small amount of money, unless of course you don’t like your boss or you said “don’t like” problem, don’t like where you live, moving for a small amount of money doesn’t look good to an employer, because it does go back to what I talked about earlier, about your loyalty, so just moving to be moving, moving straight across for the same amount of money, is a warning shot to the employer that you could be a problem employee.

So if you’re going to move, make sure you move for quite a bit more money, at least 20%, because again, you’re probably not going to get a raise at your new company for at least a year, and unless you timed it right when you left your old company, you could be a year or two years before you get another wage increase, and so don’t move for just five or 10%. Make it worthwhile, and that’s why I put that 20% figure in there, because that’s a more reasonable number if you’re going to consider changing jobs.

And there’s a risk in changing jobs for you as an individual, as an employee, because you may not be able to perform at that level, at what you need to get a bigger pay increase, and so you want to make sure that you have enough pay change to make it worthwhile for yourself.

Rob Artigo: And there are other considerations. Like you said, if you’re going to move to relocate for whatever reason, if you just want to… Maybe you want to live in Austin or you want to live somewhere in Montana or something like that, you can… Really you have to look at the expense of making that move and how much that’ll affect what the number actually pencils out to be, because if it’s 20% more and you end up paying that into just moving expenses, then that’s a balance.

Ray Zinn: Yeah, you have state taxes to worry about. Some states charge more income tax than other states, and so you got to make sure you take that into consideration. The cost of housing, you got to make sure you take that into consideration, and just cost of living in general, and so if you’re going from, let’s say, California to Montana, the cost of living is quite a bit less in Montana, so therefore you could take a flat pay increase because you’re going to make it up in the cost of living, or if you’re moving from Montana to California, then you got to look at a significant cost of living increase. It’s like 15, 20% higher in California than it is in Montana, so you got to make sure that you do cover that change in cost of living.

Rob Artigo: Well, we’ll wrap it up by talking about this. I just heard the other day or read the other day, that quiet quitting 2.0 is coming back, and obviously this means that people have decided to change jobs just to change jobs, and I imagine that what you have heard about quiet quitting the first time didn’t bode well for employees, and it probably won’t the next time.

Ray Zinn: Exactly. So loyalty, dependability, responsibility, accountability, all those things are good attributes to have as an employee, and of course, if I’m talking to employers, make sure the people you hire have those attributes of responsibility, accountability, dependability, loyalty, all those things that go to make a good employee.

Rob Artigo: Thanks Ray. This is a special edition of the Tough Things First podcast, and we really appreciate you joining the conversation with us here. At toughthingsfirst.com your questions and comments are always welcome at the website. You can follow Ray Zinn on Twitter, also known as X obviously, Facebook, LinkedIn, and of course, Ray’s books are available.

Tough Things First, and as you’ve seen and heard today, you saw Zen of Zinn III, but we also have Zen of Zinn I and II. You won’t regret picking up those books. Thank you, Ray for another great podcast.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.