Fr Calvin Robinson - Beyond Headlines and Protests: A Call for Unity and Understanding

Hearts of Oak Podcast

Fr Calvin Robinson returns to Hearts of Oak to reflect on recent events in the UK, emphasising the importance of unity and common sense discussions amidst rising anger and protests. Calvin discusses the role of media in shaping narratives and advocates for accurate reporting. He stresses the need for righteous indignation without violence and raises concerns about the government's response to current issues. Fr Calvin highlights patriotism, British identity, challenges of mass immigration, and the role of churches in addressing spiritual needs. Encouraging critical thinking and spiritual awareness, he urges prayer, reflection, and deeper faith connections in facing societal challenges.

The Rev'd Fr Calvin Robinson is a political adviser, TV anchor, radio presenter, conservative commentator and parish priest.
A priest with Old Catholic orders, serving in an Anglican parish.
Founding member of the Anglo-Catholic confraternity, Brotherhood of the Holy Trinity.

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Interview recorded 5.8.24

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Transcript

(Hearts of Oak)

And hello, hearts of oak.

I am delighted to have a good friend of ours, and that is Father Calvin Robinson.

Calvin, thank you so much for your time today, as always.

(Fr Calvin Robinson)

Peter, it is always a pleasure.

thanks for having me on.

Although, the thing is, we're pre-recording this, so by the time this goes up, the country might not even still be here.

It could be, we could be both in the States by then.

Who knows what happens by Thursday?

Or locked up.

But there's literally so much to discuss.

And you and I both talked prior to recording this about the interest in the US of what is happening here.

And lots of media slots for both of us on the US side as they see what is happening.

Happening but over the last week from last Monday from the individual I will get into that actually stabbing three girls killing them and a number of others being severely I think there was about 11 who were injured in that we have seen since last Tuesday a rise of individuals, very angry at what has been happening and there's lots of point of conversation in this.

But can I ask you just first generally what have your thoughts been um as a brit living here what is happening over the last week in the UK.

That's a big opening question.

I don't feel safe. I just today as we're recording this moved out of Cambridge moved over to Oxford and on the way I was thinking I don't feel safe.

I don't want to go into London. I don't want to go into the city.

I don't want to be around where there are big gatherings of people I don't feel like I'm safe.

Now I shouldn't feel like that in my own country.

Why do I feel like that?

Well, there's a two-pronged approach here.

On the one hand the prime minister seems to be stoking the flames he's doing everything he can to make things worse it's bizarre.

I've never seen anything like it.

Every single press statement he releases or at least has released over the last few days has been: this is all a fault of of the far right and the agitators online, and he's basically pointed fingers at Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage, you, me, and people who are pointing out the problem.

But this has been the problem; these are we're problem a lot here, but the problem all along has been that people who point out the problem are perceived as the problem rather than the problem itself.

So, you on the one hand we've got the government saying things like we're going to clamp down on these these far-right thugs.

We are the far-right thugs and their online agitators for all that's us.

And then on the other hand we've got the Muhammadans out there with the machetes and the planks of wood beating Britain's left right and centre, and so I don't know if I'm going to get arrested by the state or beat to death by a Muhammadan.

What, so how do you, because you have a responsibility as someone who is a high profile individual in the media, and I feel I have a responsibility of someone who's less high profile in the media than yourself.

But we have responsibility to discuss what is happening and not to throw petrol on the fire, but to have a conversation of what is happening to bring some common sense, but not to ramp up for the sense of clickbait which I think is a danger in the media. So how do you; you've got a a number of different hats.

Let's stick your media hat on, how do you see it in terms of media?

Well, we do have to report on events, we have to cover the events of course, we don't have to we have to not stoke the events, but my my personal message is be angry.

We should be angry.

We should have righteous indignation, but we should not be violent.

We as brits are not violent we're civilized people and actually we want to protect our country.

The reason we're angry is because we feel the establishment is disconnected from us, working against us, and have imported a hostile force who hates us and want to kill us and replace us.

And so we're angry on two fronts, but we're angry because the other people are violent, not because we're violent.

So, we don't meet violence with violence.

And so my message over this past few days has been, do not resort to violence. Because actually, I think we're being stirred up for a reason.

I honestly believe the government cannot be this incompetent they must be riling people up in order to clamp down on our freedoms we're already seeing, you know, there was a conflict of interest in the media this week.

Where we had former minister Ed Balls on Good Morning Britain interviewing his wife Yvette Cooper who happens to be the home secretary.

Having a very cordial conversation about clamping down on Twitter and clearly Twitter is the only free speech platform we have left, you know, we've got rumble in the video space, but in social media space we've only got Twitter.

So, if they clamp on twitter they control the narrative and all they have to do to clamp down on Twitter is say; well these these riots are being stirred up by by Peter and Calvin and Tommy and Nigel therefore we've got to stop them talking.

The prime minister was lost a question by the media again as we record today should Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate be allowed on social media.

Should they be allowed on social? Should they be allowed to have a voice?

It's absolutely crazy the conversations that are being had right now and so of course the far left who think themselves to be reasonable centrists are saying well no of course they shouldn't we should stop all these people.

These people are the problem, but they will even if they do manage to censor us they will never realize that we are just highlighting the problem.

We are not the problem itself, the problem is still festering. Those people out with the sticks and machetes are not your everyday ordinary common British folk.

So, the problem for our war room posse and our US audience who may not get what's happening is that last Monday, three girls were murdered and many others were injured at, I think, a Taylor Swift kind of concert event in a school. And this individual has now been arrested.

Details put out. And but it's so that's the situation we find ourselves in to this event, which seems to have been the spark that has angered people.

Why have people been angered at that?

Is it the event?

Is it the response? Is the media? How has that been the spark that set off this anger that we've seen across the UK, even to Northern Ireland, which surprises me?

When you have the nationalists and the Republicans, the Protestants and the Catholics, Irish flag and Northern Irish flag together, I don't think I've ever seen that in all my time.

So, it's been something that's unified people.

What has it been about this event that's actually unified people and got them angry?

First of all that unity is great to see.

This is... So, God takes bad things and turns them into good. He takes evil events and works them for good.

That's what we're seeing here; the Catholics and the Protestants marching arm by arm in arm side by side.

I honestly have never thought I'd see the day in Northern Ireland that's amazing, but it's coming from and you're right this this one incident is a spark, but it's almost a catalyst.

It didn't start the whole thing.

You know, we saw riots in Leeds and in Whitechapel before this incident as well.

So, it's been stirring up for a while.

And actually, the three girls, Alice, Elsie, and Bebe, were –, It destroys us.

It breaks our hearts.

As Brits, we take the lives of innocents and the vulnerable seriously, and we believe in the sanctity of life, and we want to protect the vulnerable and the innocent.

So, when three girls are murdered viciously for no reason, it's horrible and it destroys us.

And so, of course, it's going to be a catalyst.

But the problem is that the media and the establishment try to cover it up, as they always do.

So, it's not just saying that this is who the perpetrator was, this is what he believed in, this is why he did it.

They say well let's talk about this, and that instead, let's talk about this, and that it's like distraction projection, distraction projection, and people see through it people aren't stupid.

And when they release pictures of of the perpetrator as a seven-year-old or 11-year-old or something to make him look cutesy and and to make you empathize when...

People don't start to empathize with him.

They don't start to think: okay the perpetrator is actually the victim. What they think is, why?

Why are you peddling this?

This was a fully grown 17-year-old chap who killed these girls.

He does not look like that.

What message are you trying to tell us?

That we should feel sorry for the boy over the girls?

And so people have had enough of the media manipulating them and the establishment manipulating them, and that the police never release the reports, and not just in this stepping, but continually.

We never get the manifestos.

We never get the motivations.

And so people have said enough is enough.

And this is why they're sick and tired of it all.

This is why they got out and started protesting.

But of course, with any protest, there are always false flags.

And there are always people trying to capitalize on these events and try to make it look worse than it is.

And so it's been incredibly disappointing to hear our own government try and paint all these ordinary, upset, frustrated Britons as far-right thugs.

There's no far-right in this country.

We'd know if there was a far-right.

We would have seen them long ago when when we're needed, but the problem is just to paint ordinary people as far right, demonizes them and paints paints the frustrated as the bad guys.

I'm beginning to get at a loss for words, because it's when the establishment is against you to that degree, when the media and the politicians are colluding together.

What outlet do we have other than public civil disorder order and this is why people are out in the streets.

Hearts of Oak:

Well, it is, because Alice - nine-year-old girl, and Bebe was six year old, Elsie - seven, these are children, they do not choose to be involved in some fight, in some war, that we have in the UK and of course eight other children and sustained knife wounds on that and you're right.

The shocking thing was the media putting the picture of Axel, and I can't pronounce his surname, I don't have in front of me, Radha Kubane, his parents from Rwanda.

He was born here in Wales so he's Welsh and that whole conversation of the media seemingly trying to hide to say this was a Welsh child, a Welsh boy, Welsh kid had carried this out, but actually there's a wider picture and it's not just on this individual.

It's a wider conversation, but it seems to be that at every turn the media have tried to fall over themselves to make sure and give a narrative that fits in with the government narrative, similar to what we've seen in Covid tyranny I guess.

For the sake of diversity.

Yeah, a rush to follow that so have you seen that kind of the media falling over themselves as someone in the media, someone who was on GB News, now with Lotus Eaters, wonderful Lotus Eaters.

But as someone in the media, how do you see that as the media rushing, falling over themselves to hide a story instead of expose a wrongdoing?

Well, this is why we started GB News.

This is why we got involved in our project to offer an alternative voice. It hasn't worked out.

It has become as controlled as the rest.

But the problem was we saw everywhere else you looked, there's a controlled narrative.

and people, it's not even always controlled, it's that people subscribe to this narrative. So, lots of people who work at the BBC, for example, or The Guardian or The Telegraph, they are on board with we must protect diversity, everything for the sake of diversity.

And so when they discover that the perp may be of a different ethnicity maybe of a foreign nationality or his parents maybe with foreign nationality they have to cover it up they have to disguise it, because they want people to think it's because of that.

And maybe in this instant it wasn't because of that maybe it wasn't anything to do with his ethnicity or his culture or his parents nationality.

Maybe it had maybe had nothing to do with it whatsoever, but the fact that they tried to hide it makes us suspicious, because quite often it does have something to do with it.

Quite as often the attacks are because there are Muhammadans in this country who hate us. Hate our way of life.

Want would love to have sharia here, would love to have the Islamic law, would love for this to be an Islamic caliphate, and so do want to harm us.

Most of our terrorist incidents in this country are from the Mohammedan ideology.

And so when they cover it up, what they're doing is they're becoming complicit.

We've seen this for years now, decades now, with the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs, where we saw Pakistani Muslims, as part of their culture, not seeing white British girls as the same or as equal or as even a person.

In our tradition, we'd see them as made in the image of God.

In their tradition they see them as lesser than.

And so they've been grooming and raping these young girls for years, but have been covered up by the councillors, by the police, by the MPs, by our government.

All for the sake of diversity, and this is exactly this is the same pattern day in day out with anything that involves anyone that may be at least slightly brown.

We've got to move past if we truly want to be a multicultural society and I don't, but if people on the left say we want to become a multicultural society, then we have to get to a stage where actually we can have discussions about ethnicity, about culture, about religion, without being shut down or being accused of being a racist, a bigot, or far-right.

And we're not there.

We are clearly not there. Multiculturalism is not working, and diversity isn't our strength.

Diversity is our Achilles heel.

Diversity is the thing that is causing a lot of these issues and a lot of this polarisation, these riots that we're seeing, these protests that we're seeing, all for the sake of diversity.

And of course, here's the individual who's going to be tried in January.

We'll discuss why they don't have 24-hour courts to actually deal with that trial, because I think justice has to be done swiftly and not held over for months and months.

And we've seen this delay in the grooming gangs, where some of them take a year to actually carry out, and it's irrespective of that the individual is held in custody.

Actually, you need justice to be done, and to be done swiftly.

But I'm glad that Keir Starmer suddenly found out that he can deal with these individuals quickly, but the individual Axel is his parents from Rwanda, Christian country, but 55 percent Christian minority, Muslim, but to me that the issue separately is people fitting into this country.

That's the first thing, but secondly it is and whether or not this individual will find out, whether or not Axel was caught up in Islamic ideology or Muhammadism.

I've talked to many church leaders and they've said they are losing many young people to Islam because it comes across as a strong muscular, confident faith.

Where Christianity comes across as weak, pathetic, and liberal.

So, young people want to have that confidence as an individual and Islam seems to have that.

Christianity doesn't have that, so that's a conversation I want to have with you in a little bit.

But that whole thing of people coming from abroad and just fitting in to the country, and what actually means being part of this country.

And we don't seem to have that conversation of people when they step here.

And that seems to be massively lacking in helping people actually know what it means to be British.

That is the key.

That's what we've been missing for all these years.

At the start of all of this mass immigration, which we have for decades now, that really took off in 1997 under Tony Blair.

We should have said, look, if we're going to have people coming here, we've got to understand who we are and what we're about before we take on board anyone else's values or cultures.

Us and we should have said, look this is this is what it means to be British: the English language the Christian faith.

Faith, hope and love as values and stretched it out from there, but we couldn't even when the Tories got into power they were like, what are British values?

Democracy, the rule of law.

It's like these secular nonsense, that's not who we are as a people.

And so we should have described it and outlined it from the beginning and then said we're going to have assimilation for the people that do come over to Britain.

They assimilate into our culture into our faith, into our way of life.

And that's how we bring people together.

That's how we have unity.

That's how you have true diversity, actually, under unity.

If we all said, look, this is a monarchy, a constitutional monarchy, a democracy.

And so under our flag, under our king or queen at the time, then that's how we unite.

But people who do not like that we are a constitutional monarchy, do not like that we're a democracy, do not like our flag, do not like our values they should not be an allowed entry.

But it's too late for that they've been allowed in, and so now we have these conflicting ideologies these conflicting cultures that do not get on.

And never will get on, because people swear allegiance to to something else or someone else before us, and it's the great test.

It always has been the test, now it's the Muhammadans, and now it's the fact that the Islamic faith comes before everything including Great Britain.

But even before then, even when we had mass Pakistani immigration; even before that when my family came over, we had the mass Caribbean immigration.

It was still, the easy test is when the cricket's on, who do you support?

I mean, you laugh, but it's true.

That you can tell someone's agenda and someone's allegiances by who they'll support.

No, completely.

And I was, I mean, today we've seen, or maybe yesterday, today, I mean, the days blur into one, but we've seen Keir Stammer, who sadly, please pray for us, all the war in Posse, we have Keir Stammer as our PM for the next five years.

But he was giving his well he was giving a statement and what he would do the far right have nowhere to hide.

We will come and find you they'll regret your actions.

I think someone posted a video of Keir stammer when making statements on the BLM rats in 2020 after George Floyd had a drugs overdose and the difference in then it didn't seem to be we will come and find you and target you it's seemingly leniency on one side and aggression on the other.

I don't know if you've seen that or want to speak into that.

Peter, are you suggesting that there's some kind of two tiers to Kier?

I love that he's getting known as two-tier Kier now by the way, because it's really exposing him for who he is.

You're right.

Absolutely, there's a different approach to to different demographics and if anyone brown is involved it's like you know, soft gloves, kiddie gloves.

And then if anyone, white or British is involved or Christian is involved, then it's, we will find you and we will get you.

It's like, whoa, how did it go from Care Bears to Stormtroopers?

Where's the in-between?

Where's the policing without fear or favour that we knew and loved?

This is, I mean, we introduced policing to the rest of the world,

pretty much from our standards.

And that's all gone.

Our police forces have been corrupted with liberalism as well as this diversity above all.

If it's black lives matter, if it's Muhammadansm, if it's something that's seen as approved by the narrative then they get away with it.

If it's the default if it's white British Christians then they're stumped down upon.

So, what is that is that is that meaning that we treat people differently based on their ethnicity and their religion, if so then that's racist discrimination and that's essentially what our police forces and our government is getting up to.

It's racial discrimination and or religious discrimination at the moment.

We have the equalities act for that purpose to make sure that everyone is treated say equally under the law and that's always been our way.

We strive for equal opportunities not equal outcomes.

We profess to live in a meritocracy where anyone can become anything as long as they work hard enough, it doesn't matter your race or your religion in this liberal democracy.

I mean it's not the way I would have it that's the way we've been told it's supposed to be and it's notworking anymore.

How do you bounce up? Because, I come with this from someone born in Northern Ireland and living in London.

So, I've got that Northern Irish mix, which is extremely proud and strong and sectarian, which is good and bad.

And then finding myself in London, which isn't England, as Lozza has told us.

But you also come from that mixed side of having a Caribbean background, English background. How do you see that diverse?

Because I've kind of been in one way perplexed living in England, having a strong identity from Northern Ireland and realizing that English people don't necessarily have that strong identity.

How do you kind of see that in a kind of similar mix?

Yeah, it's been scrubbed out over the years, it's very bizarre.

So, I've always been proud to be British.

My father was born here but his father was born in Jamaica and when they came over from Jamaica during Windrush they were very proud to be British too, because they were part of the British Commonwealth of nations they were like coming to the mother country so essentially.

They still believed in the empire, they thought it was great. Most Jamaicans still do, according to the last poll taken over there. So, it's really weird when the native English don't.

So, I'm only half English, I'm half Caribbean. So I suppose it's my Caribbean half that's more patriotic, that's proud to be British, because the English people have lost some of that.

And I think it's been taken out of them on purpose by design.

Most people are told these days, you can't be proud to be English, because it's nationalistic.

It seems to be something that came out of World War II. It seems to be the lesson we took from World War II too, that to be nationalistic is a bad thing.

It leads to Nazism. Of course, that's nonsense, lot a nonsense.

National socialism was fascism. It was the extreme end of the political spectrum.

Having pride in your nation is something that unites us, not something that divides us.

And actually, if it's done right, patriotism is done right, it's a good thing for all of us.

And so I feel sorry when I see a lot of English people that feel that the Scots have their identity, the Northern Irish have their identity, the Welsh have their identity.

They're like, Like, what are we?

We're told we're just British. Well, the thing that unites all of us is that we're British across the whole of the United Kingdom.

But the English are still English too.

And actually, there is an English, a distinctively English culture that's different to the Welsh culture and the Scottish culture and the Northern Irish culture.

But there are things that we share in common as British.

And so we've got to be able to take the distinction between the two and celebrate the two and say, yes, yes, I'm English.

Yes, I'm British. They are both good things.

And of course, when we do that, we'll get called racists and FOB bigots.

But we've got to accept that.

We've got to take that.

Just dust it off. It doesn't matter.

The far left hate themselves and they hate us because we don't hate ourselves.

So, we've just got to show them love, really, and show them it's okay to love our country.

I've read you being called names along with Tommy, along with Lawrence, and I will not get into the personal stuff, but I've seen Majid Nawaz getting involved in that attack and others, so it's not just on that side.

But I don't understand the attacks, because it seems to be that you, Tommy, Lawrence, many others are concerned at this erosion of British identity and are concerned at how mass immigration changes this and are concerned of how the government understands the left behind that many communities feel.

So, as I've looked online, as I've gone into Twitter, as we all go into that Twitter spiral, and I've been confused at that attack on yourself and others because it doesn't seem to stand up, doesn't seem to have merit.

I'm high of, I know for you it's water off a duck's back.

I get that, but what how are you targeted as someone who simply wants to stand up for British values and understands the anger that many English people feel.

I think it's different from different people.

So, Merchant Noah's is a good example of Muhammadan's always put Muhammad first.

And so you know he wrote this book radical from from extremist Islamist to secular Muslim.

And he's claimed to be a secular Muslim for a while now, but it seems he's reverted back to his extremist ways or he's reverted back to putting Islam above Britain, because the people who are standing up for Britain or at least try to are getting attacked by him.

I mean, he called me a globalist Chill.

I've literally done everything all my life to fight against globalism.

You know, I was in part of vote Leave to fight against the Federalist European Union.

I fight against globalism in terms of Islam along trying to take over Britain.

And try to fight against the one state, the one nation, the one world government, the one world religion, all that stuff but I think he's he's seeing it from an Islamic point of view rather than the British point of view.

That's that's his his downfall.

That's his Achilles heel unfortunately, but it's not just him there is there we're getting divided amongst ourselves.

So, the people who have been traditionally fighting for freedom and traditionally fighting against you know covid, lockdowns, and vaccine mandates and stuff people who were aligned are being separated now, and it's a great shame, but this is part of the design of the enemy.

Whether we're talking about the enemy in terms of the state or in terms of Satan himself, the enemy does not want us working together for good.

But during the COVID, I've seen that divide and conquer.

I've seen individuals attacking each other.

And my line on the COVID tyranny is it doesn't matter if it's taken you a year, two years, three years to catch up.

Hey, that's fine.

It's important that individuals wake up.

And the same on mass immigration, the same on Islam.

The same on however you want to tackle this.

So, I don't understand this attack from within, because surely we should understand the role of the state to divide people up and therefore control individuals.

It seems to me that some of the individuals that attack, surely they should know better. But yeah, maybe they don't.

And it kind of you look at people you think surely you should know better how this works.

[Yeah, and I mean we have to kind of curate our own side as well, because it gets to the point where, you know we were just talking about my mixed heritage for example.

Now, we said certain elements of the right that are edging onto the far right now and saying well we're ethno-nationalists and actually we just think Britain should be entirely white.

So, it's like okay well what about those of of us who were born here, and our parents were born here, and we're not 100%, English, like I am half English, half Afro-Caribbean, then where do we go?

And where do we fit into all of this?

And so, it's become puritanical about all this, because they've been pushed to the extremes.

They've been pushed for so long and so hard that their only defence is to fight back and say, we want none of it, and say, we don't just want rid of Islam, we just want rid of brownness.

And it's like, of course, that's unrealistic.

It does eventually lead to racism, but I can understand where it's coming from.

And this is, because we're being divided further and further.

And we've got to fight against the division.

We've got to come back to unity. And this is why the rallies that we've been holding in London, one on June the 1st and one on July the 27th, were about uniting the kingdom, because we've got to come together.

Tell me about that July the 22nd because frustratingly I was away, because I had a wedding anniversary and I was away.

I couldn't join you in London and I was so sad to watch the huge demonstration.

The tens of thousands, certainly 50,000, some put 100,000, and that coming together and that preceded what we have seen in the outpouring of anger at the stabbings.

But there does seem to be a patriotism that's building up in Britain that I haven't seen for quite a while.

I mean, how did you see that demonstration back in the 1st of June and then in July?

It does seem to be a reinvigorating of what it means to be British and champion that once again, that we haven't seen that patriotism for a while in Britain.

It's amazing to see, actually.

We talked earlier about how English people tend to lack that sense of patriotism or not be able to display it these days without being castigated.

But these rallies have been reuniting people and allowing people, giving people the permission that they feel the need for some reason to be able to be patriotic again.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make it either because the date was set.

And it's not about me, it's not about any individual, so we all just have to...

But this has been the great thing about these rallies, It's the thing that Lawrence often says.

It's amazing how much you can get done if no one wants the credit.

And that's what these rallies have been about.

So, I remember seeing you at the organising committee.

We all come together to help do what we can and contribute how we can.

If we can make it on the day, fantastic.

If we can't, so be it.

We still put our two pence in.

But the people who turn up, they are what it's all about.

British people waving that, whether it's the Union flag or St George's Cross or St Patrick's Cross or the Red Fist or the Red Dragon.

And this is what it's all about.

So it's not a fist, it's a hand.

The red hand.

Red hand of Ulster with a crown in the middle.

That's the howl.

But tell me from your point of view as a Christian leader, and we all are called into positions by God.

We all, maybe because we want to, because we don't, because our choosing, because of simply calling, but we end up in positions of responsibility.

And your position of responsibility is not only a media figure but also a Christian figure a religious figure.

A church figure.

How do you look on what is happening with that hat if I can ask you to put on that hat of Christianity and how do you see what's happening in terms of the rallies, but in terms of what we've seen over the last week?

Over the last week I've felt a darkness come over this country.

Now I've spoken to friends who've visited recently of last few weeks and months and they've said it feels like your country has a malaise over it and that malaise I think has turned into maleficence.

I think in the last few days in particular there's a spiritual heaviness a spiritual darkness on this country that we can only get through if we pray we can.

You know, to get through with him and his help.

Unfortunately, I don't think many of us are at that stage yet.

Thankfully, people are waking up at a political level.

People are getting out and protesting and people are making their voices heard.

But people aren't necessarily waking up at a spiritual level yet.

And so this is why on Sunday just gone, I started my first online prayer session for the nation, where I'm going to do every Sunday at 5 p.m. People can tune in.

We're just going to do evening prayer, just praying together for this country because we need it.

We cannot do anything good on our own without him. He is everything that's good.

And so, yeah, we're dark, but the darkness helps us see the light.

So, we just need to turn to the light and head towards that.

And how do you see churches being involved?

Because we often see churches not understanding the conversation that's happening in public, because of the desire to protect ourselves with a midweek meeting and a Sunday sermon.

And therefore, we are doing our duty as Christians behind our walls. How do you see churches' involvement?

The churches have been disappointing, but we've seen this throughout modern history.

Actually, we saw this through Covid where they closed their doors and instead of saying we are an essential service and the sacraments are vital there's no health in us without them.

And people need to pray together to be to be Christian to come together to worship God and glorify God.

Instead of saying that they closed their doors on people and it's been the same ever since to be honest you know Church attendance dropped by a third across the board in this country.

So, lots of people have not returned because they haven't felt supported spiritually.

Their spiritual well-being hasn't been taken care of.

But even the people that are good, even the church leaders that are good, have their heads buried in the sand. So many of them are worried about image and optics.

And we can't seem to be saying that.

Even if they believe it, they can't seem to be saying it.

And so when I talk to people about the church, I'm not talking about that church anymore.

The hierarchy, the visible church, I'm not interested.

We are the church, and that's what's important.

Me, you, everyone tuned in watching, the professors of their faith in Jesus Christ, through our baptism.

We are the church, the faithful masses.

And so we come together in prayer.

We come together in worship of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. And that's what bishops do.

Leave the priests, leave the archbishop, do their wokeness and their liberalism.

because they are important.

He is what's important.

As long as we come together with Him on our hearts, we are doing what we're called to do.

And it's interesting how God raises people up.

And I always want to sit back as a Christian and say and pray,

God, who are you going to raise up?

What are you going to do in this current climate?

What is your will?

And see people like me. I watched Elon Musk's interview with Jordan Peterson, and it was intriguing.

Speaking not only that Jordan Peterson interviewed himself as opposed to Elon Musk, but that's a whole other conversation, but actually learning a little bit about Elon from that conversation obviously someone having the platform of Twitter someone who is not a Christian and said to Jordan how he's not a Christian.

Very different from Jordan Peterson who's someone who seems to be searching for something more.

Elon is not necessarily at that, but he is willing to speak out and he sees what's happening in the UK.

And even today, he talked about Keir Starmer and said, surely you should be concerned about all communities and not just about one community protecting mosques or attacking far right.

Or he sees that as a divide and conquer.

How do you see as a media figure, but probably as a Christian, how God kind of raises individuals up to speak common sense and truth whenever the church is not really doing that.

Yeah, that was an interesting clip where Keir said: you should not feel attacked because of your faith or the colour of your skin.

And he wasn't about white people or Christians.

He was talking about brown Mohammedans.

And this is what Elon rightly pointed out, that we shouldn't be, you know, and Keir said, we're going to put more money.

I think recently they announced £170 million for the protection of mosques, but he said we need more money to protect the mosques.

It's like, why is this one particular demographic being put on a pedestal above all the others?

What's it about that?

But you're writing that God uses people in different ways and calls us to different things, that even when we don't know about it ourselves.

And I think Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson are both being called right now to lead people to Christ.

Elon Musk recently said he appreciates the cultural Christianity of the West and finds it important, similar to what Richard Dawkins, the chief atheist said recently.

But also we know that Jordan Peterson's been on this faith journey for some time now.

When you and I saw him in London recently, he had his blazer on with Mary all over it, which I thought was a bit on the nose.

But it's like, come on, just come here, just come out.

I mean, we all have different barriers in our way when it comes when it comes to faith.

So, all we can do is pray for these people to find Christ and hope that he changes their hearts and converts them.

Yeah, I mean, lots of people are being called, lots of people are being raised up right now, and it's about separating the weak from the chaff, and it's about finding who's true and not jumping to conclusions.

We saw this in America with the attempted assassination of Donald Trump.

Clearly a miracle, clearly saved.

But then people are like, oh, he's the anointed one of God, he is the prophet Trump.

It's like, wait a minute, calm down a minute, let's not go too far.

You know my personal take on that is that he was he was he was definitely saved it was definitely a miracle but we don't know why.

We don't know what god's plan is, you know, it could be that if Donald Trump had been assassinated there'd be civil war in America right now because there are a couple of them would have taken up arms against the democrats who clearly would have killed him.

And so maybe in saving his life God has saved the nation it's the nation that's anointed rather than than Donald Trump.

So ,I mean it's just speculation but that's all we can do it's not to to jump on bandwagons of making false idols out of people.

No, it tells that we see things through what a dark glass or darkly and don't always see things clearly.

And we don't know what the mind of God is. And one day we will see that.

But the Jordan, I mean, seeing Michaela, his daughter, talk about her faith and of how a number of things lined up within one day.

And she said the only thing that could be is God and then Jordan's wife, I think Tammy being very open.

I mean it is exciting, because I don't understand why people don't question things.

As a Christian I am confused why people how people can look at the complexity of the world and think actually it's just luck and chance and a big bang and here we are and we all die and that's the end.

And yet some people are in that elk to not actually question things, people who are questioning by nature.

So, it is exciting to see people questioning and questioning.

That's, in effect, that's part of your calling under God to actually, and mine is a Christian, but you have a dog collar, I don't.

But to actually point people towards, is God in this?

What does that mean?

Surely this complexity of the universe and life means something more.

I think we're having that conversation in the UK separate from maybe the established church.

But still, there are those conversations happening one-on-one and online.

Yeah, I think it's just a case of encouraging people to think.

And the enemy would say, well, thinking is the opposite of religion.

You have to not think to be.

No, it's not.

It's clear.

The problem is we live in a world where there's noise constantly, or we're surrounded by distraction 24-7.

So, we don't actually take any time out to think.

And God is working very actively in our lives, in this world, in his creation.

Our living God is a good God who doesn't sit by.

So, there are miracles happening in our lives every day if we're open to seeing them.

But that means we've got to think about it.

You're right, some people will think, oh, it's just a coincidence.

They won't even stop to think about it.

They'll just continue with the noise and the distraction and keep the blinkers on.

But the moment we stop and reflect and pray through what has happened in our day, in fact, it's a good habit to build up in our life to have that at the end of the day to just take time out to things and reflect about what's happened in the day.

To repent of any sins we may have committed, but also to thank God for the beauty that we've experience.

And that's kind of what we're avoiding, because we're avoiding the silence. And we hear God's voice in the silence. That's where he is.

So, that's why we spend all our lives and all our days running away from it.

And so I suppose my job is just to encourage people to stop.

Stop running. Stop being distracted. And just think. Stop and think.

Hearts of Oak:

Oh, and I've talked to many people who said, you know, I'm not religious, Peter, but I have prayed more.

I have thought more. And I think that's something we're seeing more and more.

And certainly I'd encourage our audience, whether you're a watcher listening to, as you see things, to take time and ask God what he means in that.

Because what we see around us is often a pointer to something.

So, do take a moment and do ask God, are you saying something in that?

And he says, call to me and I will answer you. So have a go, have a try, I do ask God.

But Cam, how do you, going forward, what is your message to Brits at the moment, to those living on this island in England and over there, the water in Northern Ireland, who've been involved in a lot of these demonstrations?

Administrations, I am concerned that a lot of people involved will get sucked up and locked away.

The state will try and remove those who are against it.

I'm trying to think how we can be smarter and more effective in combating what we see.

So, I mean, publicly, what's your message to people in this current environment?

My message is to be cautious and to be careful.

We've got to make redundancies, make plans. The state could be coming for us. The Mohammedans could be coming for us.

We don't know if we're going to be locked up or if we're going to be killed.

And so have backup plans, whether that's downloading VPNs, so you've got ways to communicate with people, being in emergency chat groups of people that you can flag that you are safe.

Build redundancies into your life, but also build prayer habits at the start of the day, at the end of the day.

Build a way of life that is centred around prayer, that is centred around Christ, and not just around the politics. We have to do both.

We've got to address the political situation that's going on in this country, and that means not sitting back and just watching.

That means being active, whether that's getting out and standing for election, or if that's just forming a local community group to look out for each other.

But also, on the other side, we've got to look after our spiritual wellbeing, which means going to church every single Sunday without exception.

I mean, starting and ending your day in prayer of thanksgiving for the one true God.

I'll be doing that, going to church on Sunday, starting my day in prayer.

I think it's essential.

Calvin, it's a perfect end to the conversation.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom on what is happening on not only the political understanding, but also the spiritual element which is what we so need to today.

So, thank you for your time today.

Thank you Peter.