5 Reasons you may have outgrown your current accounting software

The Jason Clause Show

How do you know when it's time to start looking for a new accounting system? Is the tool that you're using good enough? Can you extract enough value from some future state that would justify all the hassle and headache associated with upgrading to something different? Before you can even start asking those questions, it's important to figure out the current gaps associated with the status quoe approach.

In this episode my guest, Doug Kennedy and I talk about a few key indicators that your accounting system may have outlived it's relevance in the business. Topic areas include:

• Having limited time for decision making
• Too much paper
• Delays in production
• Inaccurate calculations
• Employees building reports manulally

My Guest:

Doug Kennedy

CFOS2Go

LinkedIn

Links

• Small business and growth plateaus

Transcript

Jason Clause: Welcome to the Jason Clause Show. I'm Jason Clause, your host and today we're gonna be talking about as always good ideas for busy managers.

Jason Clause: Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody. This is the Jason Clause Show. It's a podcast dedicated to helping busy Bay Area managers, find and share good ideas. My experience is the best managers and business leaders in the Bay Area, they're idea collectors. They are constantly on the lookout for good ideas, ways that they can build culture, ways they can motivate their team, ways they can help them be safer, ways they can help them be more productive and that's what this podcast is about. It's about trying to find those ideas and share those ideas with a growing community of business leaders in the Bay Area, specifically the San Francisco East Bay. I have an awesome show for us today. I've got a guest and a friend, Doug Kennedy from CFOs2GO and he wrote an article that he posted on his company's website and it focuses on sort of the canary in the coal mine, tell tale signs that you should look for that might indicate that it's time to consider upgrading the business system, specifically the accounting system. We're gonna get into that right after this.

Jason Clause: The Jason Clause show is brought to you by Endsight. Computer problems, they're frustrating and they're expensive. What a lot of people don't know is they're almost always avoidable. You work too hard, you deserve a better computing experience and you can trust Endsight to deliver it. To see how we do that, go to www.endsight.net and check it out.

Jason Clause: All right everybody. Welcome back. So like I said, I've got a great guest today. His name's Doug Kennedy. He's a friend of mine and a business colleague. He's a partner with a company called CFOs2GO and Doug, I'm not gonna steal any of your thunder. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

Doug Kennedy: My pleasure.

Jason Clause: Glad to have you here. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Doug Kennedy: Sure. Spent many years in corporate tax at a number of big companies. I was a partner in one of the major CPA firms for a time, spent a turn in investment management, about eight years in that, and then came back to accounting in 2009 with CFOs2GO as a partner, working primarily with small businesses and high net worth individuals.

Jason Clause: Right on, right on. Well I'm glad you're here. So Doug, you wrote an article recently that you posted to your company's website and the title of it, 'Small Businesses and Growth Plans'. What was it that prompted you to ... What was the genesis behind writing the article?

Doug Kennedy: Well it's several things. One, it's just talking with business owners who experience this phenomenon on a regular basis, talking to consultants who have clients who are going through the process of growing a business and feeling the growing pains. So the issue is migrating from QuickBooks or Zero Up to a more robust accounting system. So I was trying to give people an indication of what it is that kinda tells you in the business, it's time to make that shift.

Jason Clause: Beyond the fact that somebody beating on your door saying, "Aha, you gotta give me something new." Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: That's actually the thing that struck me from the article. Right? You had ... I'm gonna quote you here, "Employee feedback is probably the most glaring indication that the accounting system isn't providing the information that you need to make good business decisions." That's where most of the great stuff comes from. From the team right, or from your customers. But could you give maybe a more tangible example of maybe something that you've seen working with one of your clients or from a previous life working in something else?

Doug Kennedy: Sure. I mean I say this to business owners all the time, "Listen to your team. They will tell you when it's time to make moves in certain areas." And one of the things is that ... You have Zero or QuickBooks, is easy to implement systems that have limited flexibility, aren't providing the kinds of information for more ... sort of sophisticated decision making. Your team's going to tell you. So they'll come to you and say, "Hey boss. I can't get the information I need on a timely basis to deal with a new customer or deal with a new need from an existing customer.", or something like that. That's your clue that you need to take ... begin to take a closer look at what your accounting system can and cannot do, and then think about migrating to one that can provide a more complete solution.

Jason Clause: Yeah. I think one of the things I hear a lot as it relates to not just the accounting system or the business system, it's just technology in general. Well actually I hear it less and less, but I do hear it still with some frequency, this idea that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Oh, sure. Sure.

Jason Clause: And I think that from the business leader's perspective, it might not feel like there's misgivings or there's any gaps. But your example certainly points out that it's broke and it might not be broke-

Doug Kennedy: [crosstalk 00:05:47].

Jason Clause: The exact way that you think it is, but you need to be listening to the people that are in the trenches and they will you. Believe me, they will tell you-

Doug Kennedy: Oh, absolutely. They're waiting.

Jason Clause: About all the problems that they're having. Right?

Doug Kennedy: They're just looking for an audience in most cases.

Jason Clause: Yeah.

Doug Kennedy: And so the other thing that I've noticed is that younger people, the millennials and younger people that are coming into business today are technology savvy. So their comfortable with the tools of technology and they will often get frustrated if your systems are inadequate to the point that it doesn't provide them with tools that they expect to able to use in the workplace.

Jason Clause: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I think that's a really good point because taking it to the next logical step, because these folks ... And I don't know if it's necessarily just the younger generation. I mean I'm part of the Xers and I feel like we came of age professionally in the technology age. I feel like we're pretty savvy as well.

Doug Kennedy: Oh, good point.

Jason Clause: We're gonna go find those resources, particularly now with cloud technologies because I don't even have to go get approval from somebody to do this. I could just plunk down a credit card on my own if it's gonna make life easy for me. I might be inclined to do that and then what does that mean? Right? It means that there's stuff all over the place and it's actually one of the things ... We'll talk about it later, but one of those ways that you know that things aren't quite right, is when you've got information distributed all over the place. Right? When you've got people using other tools to do their job.

Doug Kennedy: Good point and that raises the issue of data security, and so that can be troubling.

Jason Clause: Right. Whole nother topic for a whole nother time, right man?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: All right. Well the article I think was well written and thank you for putting that together. I'm gonna include a link to it in the show notes and I'd encourage anyone listening to give that a read. It's a quick read and well done, and really kinda points to some of the canary in the coal mine sort of things to look for. But in addition to that, we've also got some more specific reasons that we're gonna talk about here. And I'm just gonna give an overview to begin with of the ... kind of the five that we were talking about and then you and me can talk about it in more detail. Sound good?

Doug Kennedy: Sure.

Jason Clause: Okay. So the five that we were talking about was one, just kind of performance and as the decision maker, as the business leader, feeling like you don't have enough time to be focusing on the business. Right? Limited time for decision making is what we came up with. Having too much paper, right ... that spread across your desk, your team's desk. Delays in production, right and that could be tangible items or it could be the service delivery, if you're a service business. But delays from the time someone says go to the time you're actually able to deliver whatever it is they bought from you. Inaccurate calculations, which the only thing worse than no data is bad data. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: And the fifth one we came down on was the ... kinda ... we already touched on it, employees building reports manually or building anything manually. Right? Outside of your control. So those are sort of the five things that we're gonna expand upon here. But having ... not having the time to make the choices that you make, there's a lot of things that could impact that. You wanna expand on that a little bit, Doug?

Doug Kennedy: Well let me just make a threshold comment. If you look at those five factors, they all create what I call friction and frustration in the decision making process or the action process of running a business. So those are the kinds of things that really ... Maybe you don't have a way ... an easy way to measure it, but it creates just a cost that is perhaps hidden in terms of being explicitly understood. But it creates all kinds of problems for your employees, frustration, just loss of energy in the decision making process, loss of momentum in the business. So that's why these things are important, just to give you a sort of 50,000 foot overview if you would.

Jason Clause: Yeah.

Doug Kennedy: But shall we dive into the specifics here?

Jason Clause: Yeah. Let's ... Item number one, limited time for decision making. Right? From your perspective, why is this even a problem?

Doug Kennedy: Well it's a problem because as you grow, the pressure to turn around decisions increases as that growth expands. And so one of the things that you've got to be able to have is an information system that enables you to respond in a timely manner to any new business initiative. If you don't have that, if your accounting system is not flexible enough to provide that, that's another source of friction that you just don't need in running the business. It's ... Scale creates opportunities. It creates opportunities for profitability and increased revenues, but it also increases pressure on your employee base to get things done quickly and efficiently and accurately. So if errors creep into the process and you gotta go back and fix those errors, that's another source of friction, that quite frankly you just don't need to ... have to deal with if you can avoid, by having a robust system that provides the accurate information on a timely basis.

Jason Clause: Right. Yeah. You kinda move in ... Like even beyond like the dashboards and the functionality that you might not have, like that's certainly an indication that maybe it's time to start looking at something. Right? But just ... Some of the things that I see just from a performance perspective right, if ... particularly, if you're a business owner working in and on the business at the same time, right, you haven't kind of ... you haven't ... your business hasn't evolved to a point where you get to spend most of your time working on the business. You've got this limited window where you can actually be trying to filter imperfect information through your experience to try to make some meaningful choices about ... and bets about what you should do in the future. Right?

Jason Clause: And so, if the system that you're system, if it's hard to get access to or it's running slow or it's clunky or it's ... it kinda feels ... like people use the word legacy or kind of like previous generation, that's a problem for the decision maker. But it's also a problem for your people right, because if you're having a problem ... whenever you can get to it ... Right? That's what happens a lot when I talk to the business leaders that I talk to. Right? I don't have a ton of time to work on this during the day. So I'm working on it at 10 o'clock at night from home and when I try to log in, it just creeps. Well if you're having that problem, it's highly likely that the people that need to put the information into the system are having that problem, and you both got this kind of artificial roadblock built in, [inaudible 00:13:17] do anything. Right? So you end up working on something else, which impacts this ... your ability to make decisions. Or maybe the system doesn't deliver the information in a way that you feel like you can meaningfully dice it out, in which case now you gotta export it to a spreadsheet. You gotta massage it. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: There's just all these things that add additional load and additional time, maybe meetings that you wouldn't have to have otherwise to get you what you need. And all of it drags on the time that you would use to say, "Hey, kind of based on this key number and this key number, I think we should invest here." [inaudible 00:13:59] further away from that. You know?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly. I'll give you a quick example of something I saw many years ago, really surprised me. Fairly well sized company, well over 500,000 a year in annual revenue and the guys in the tax department came to me and said, "Hey, you know we have to download the general ledger into spreadsheets and manipulate it into tax literate information to be able to do the tax return." And I was like, "Well why can't you just get a report directly off the GL?" And they didn't have the mapping system and the general ledger system to be able to do that. That's why to download stuff into Excel, it took them two weeks to manipulate the information into sort of tax return literate format to be able to begin doing the tax returns. Like that's an amazing amount of time for a fairly big company, that if they had the right system, that report could easily be delivered and then the tax department starts two weeks ahead of their previous work schedule.

Jason Clause: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep. Yeah, it's amazing the numbers of things that don't ... I tend to think of it more like ... if you could get a robot to do it for you, it could save so much time. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: And it might take a lot of work on the upfront but I think that's a great example. Right? If the tax organization could just press a button and automatically get that information in a format that they can use, what could you do with that, right? How much more effective could you be? How much more quickly could you get that filed and be on to the next thing, you know?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: So I think that's a great example, as opposed to process based, people based, paper based work, which is still far too common, which kinda leads us to the next canary. Right? I walk into offices all the time, where there's somebody with ... it's lead bookkeeper or the controller, sometimes even the CFO, where either on the front of their desk or in that vanity on the back of their desk, there's just mountains of paper and files. You know, and it sounds a little condescending to say it that way. Right? But if you're listening to this and you're ... and while you're listening, you're surrounded by a bunch of paper, that's probably a sign that the system that you're using, the information system to keep track of the stuff, might be a little deficient. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: Yeah. I ... Beyond that, I don't really know ... I don't know if there's too much more to expand on. You got a story from the trenches for us about this one?

Doug Kennedy: Well I think one of the issues that you run into sometimes is there are just certain people that are uncomfortable working off reports that they view online, and sometimes they ... There's this emotional support that comes from printing out a big report and having a big stack of paper in front of you, because then can flip through it or do whatever it is that they are accustomed doing. And if you can retrain yourself out of that habit, it creates just an enormous amount of additional efficiency.

Jason Clause: Yeah, and you can access it anywhere. Not that you can't take paper with you, but it's hard carting all that around, particularly for most of us in the Bay Area with these long commutes that we've got. You don't wanna be carting around a big spreadsheet either, right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: I remember my dad bringing home those phone book looking sheets.

Doug Kennedy: Yeah.

Jason Clause: I haven't seen one of those in a long time, but I'm sure they're out there.

Doug Kennedy: Mercifully so. I mean the great thing is with the advent of mobile devices, the smartphones and the tablet, those things enable you to access information in a much more realtime basis than we ever had in the past. So [crosstalk 00:18:16]-

Jason Clause: Oh, that's actually a really good point. I think about this personally. I'm out on the road all the time, I generate a lot of receipts and I expect to get paid back for all of that money that I spend. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Right.

Jason Clause: And I remember having to fill out these spreadsheets and forms and then upload the photo, and I remember taping receipts to-

Doug Kennedy: Yeah.

Jason Clause: To a piece a ... to a template piece of paper and then photocopy them and then I'm getting ... Like just nonsense. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Yeah, sure.

Jason Clause: And technology allows the input of that information to be digital too. Right? Now I just take a snapshot of the ... On my smartphone, I take a picture of the receipt and that information is transcribed and I still have to look at it and I still have to massage it a little bit, 'cause nothing's perfect yet. But it's a much easier way to get accurate information into the systems, as opposed to having to go from piece of paper to piece of paper to cross reference.

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: Yeah.

Doug Kennedy: So you just ... A great example of a way that technology has removed friction from the decision making process and the operations of the business.

Jason Clause: Yeah, and the vast majority of these applications, they've ... These are fairly basic features that are available in all of them. Right? So maybe someone's listening to this and they're using a tool that they feel like they may have outgrown. It may not be that they've outgrown it. It may be that they just need a refresher on all the things that it can do. You know?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: That might be something too. Okay. Well number three right, delays in production and so this topic, this is the kinda thing where ... It's really hard to sell even in this environment. I know everyone's doing well, but you work ... and your teams, they work really hard to find that new client or to help expand that account. Right? And then you get the order and then you get stuck. I have a friend, he works for a real big company. We'll leave them nameless 'cause I don't wanna embarrass them, but he and his cohort, they call their fulfillment organization ... that accounting component of that, they call it the sales prevention organization. That's ... I mean ... and it's ... You laugh, right? But that is-

Doug Kennedy: [crosstalk 00:20:51].

Jason Clause: That is just wrong, you know? I mean you're ... And then what's the incentive, right? So kinda going back to where we started off, if you wanna find the real canary in the coal mine, talk to your sales guys. Right? And you gotta filter it right, as a sales guy, I'm gonna come up with any excuse I can as to why I didn't get to where I wanted to get or why that deal didn't go, right, or whatever. But there's gonna be some good nuggets of information inside of whatever I throw up at the boss. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: But ... So can you expand ... I'm sure you've seen ... And it's not just sales, right? It could ... It's just about any place in the process of getting an order and fulfilling that order that there's some gaps that you might be able to ... that you might see that could be influencing this here.

Doug Kennedy: I remember many years ago working in a technology company, where the VP of sales and VP of manufacturing were constantly logger heads, because the sales guy would go out and close a nice order and then the manufacturing guys had trouble getting the stuff out the door and meeting delivery deadlines. So there was a constant source of frustration going on there. A lot of it had to do with just bad information in the accounting systems that the manufacturing guys would say, "Well this order's gonna be ready X date." And then all of a sudden, it got delayed and the manufacturing guys were trying to blame the accounting system many times and of course, you wondered what the real answer was. But you suspect that it was not the accounting system, it was some production delay that was giving rise to this problem.

Jason Clause: Yeah. I mean I think you're kinda ... I like the example 'cause it kinda points to ... as the business leader, trying to figure out the way to solve the problem. There's different areas that you have to investigate. Right? Is it a people problem? Is it really that the lead in manufacturing and the lead in fulfillment ... is that they just can't get along? Is it that they ... Is that where you ... Is that the lever you need to pull? Is it a technology lever that you need to pull? Answering those questions will help direct energy, right? Our topic is about technology, but you could do a whole thing on the marriage counseling aspect of trying to ... trying to suss through that. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Well, yeah. I mean you can imagine the egos that ... involved in a situation like that, where you got two highly experienced and accomplished guys or gals, that have a potential personality conflict.

Jason Clause: Yeah. I think it's real important to maybe just do a disclaimer here. Technology is a great lever right, and it's a great accelerator and can help solve lots of problems in its ability to standardize things. But if all you're doing is standardizing a people problem, then you're just going to accelerate ... any efficiency that might be gained is gonna be counterbalanced by all the nonsense that it creates too. I've seen that as well. Only thing worse than ... I guess incompatible software or software that doesn't quite do what it's supposed to do, is software that had the expectation it's supposed to do what it's supposed to do or the fix-

Doug Kennedy: Right.

Jason Clause: That made everyone think that it was gonna do what it's supposed to do and then it doesn't. Right? Then it's compounded. All right. So our fourth ... kind of our fourth canary in the coal mine, it's inaccurate calculations. Right? Poor data, bad data quality. Right? And I would imagine in your career Doug, you've just ... this has gotta ... this has gotta happen with some frequency. Right? It's human beings and information, right? The two don't always mix that well sometimes.

Doug Kennedy: Yeah, that's right. And I've seen situations where either there's so much skepticism about the information in the accounting system that ... one senior manager in one business I worked in literally went out and bought a separate small system, to run in parallel with the main accounting system to check the accuracy of what he was getting out of the primary accounting system. And then when the two came up with different answers, there was enormous amount of energy that went into reconciling the information that was coming out of the two systems. You can imagine the frustration that led to in the employee base, when they had to reconcile one system to another and that was ... I don't think it really raised the quality of decisions at all, but it created enormous amount of friction in the decision making system, and led to some serious morale issues among the employees that had to work in that process.

Jason Clause: That's a really good point. It's not just ... What I heard ... It's not just the fact that you might be looking at information that is incorrect. That's not the ... That's not just the only thing to be looking for under this item. Right? Because it sounds like the other thing to be looking for is when you're talking to your team, how quick are they to be asking you for ways to countermeasure something that's wrong. Right? I can give you an example from my business. Right? A lot of times what people will say to me is, "Listen, I really wanna understand your escalation path. So when there's a problem, who do I go to and then who do I go to next and then who do I go to next?" Which on the face of it, that's a fine question, but it points to something. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: Why is that important in the first place? Isn't it more important to just have a good experience in the first place? Isn't that really what you want? I mean you need to have that counterbalance too. But if weighting that too heavily, doesn't that point to a problem on the quality of whatever it is to begin with? You know and-

Doug Kennedy: That's a really good point and I remember in this particular, there was this sort of cultural norm that, well your firs mistake is your last. And I was like wow, that's a pretty harsh condition to be working under if you can't make an honest mistake, correct it, learn from it and move on. That's troublesome in terms of the employee satisfaction with their jobs and retention and a whole related set of issues.

Jason Clause: Yeah. Yeah. We don't have a bullet point for that one, but that's a canary in the coal mine too. Good talent walking off.

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: I guess that's a canary for a lot of ... That's not fair. It doesn't belong on this list.

Doug Kennedy: Okay.

Jason Clause: We don't want ... I'll just move on. We'll let that one go. All right. So number five, employees building reports manually and I don't think it's just building reports manually. It's employees taking things on that ... on their own. Right?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: Your last example was of a guy ... I mean he went out and got another piece of software to check the output from the "official tool". You know?

Doug Kennedy: Exactly.

Jason Clause: And I think this is very, very common, right, because I see it happen all the time. People are building ... they build Excel spreadsheets to do things ... very complicated Excel spreadsheets, and maybe you can talk a little bit about that. I mean ...

Doug Kennedy: Yeah, I [crosstalk 00:28:30].

Jason Clause: Seen a number of ... Yeah, a number of really sophisticated sheets and how effective are those in your mind?

Doug Kennedy: Well I've met a lot of power users of spreadsheet technology in my career and the difficulty is it's not with their ability to do the work. It's are they getting all the data out of the system that they need? Is it fully reconciled back to the primary system so that you can be assured that there's integrity of the data that you're working with. Both you the preparer of that data or that spreadsheet and the user of it that you're producing it to. How can you be sure that everything is fully reconciled and accurate? So that can be troublesome. If you get a mistake somewhere in there and there's no process to highlight that mistake and fully uncover it, then that can be highly troublesome.

Jason Clause: Yeah. Yeah. I ... The other thing that I see is that if there's a ... if something changes, the assumptions that were made in building the sheet, if something changes, now you gotta go back and fix that, and maybe you know how to do it and maybe you don't. So I've seen that be the case where the sheet became unusable, when the tool became unusable and all that work that went into it, was just lost. And the employee did it and the employee has no idea how to fix it and so now you're back to square one.

Doug Kennedy: Yeah, that's exactly right. That time it takes to fix an error or trace down an error and correct it is ... that's just lost time and friction in the system that no one needs.

Jason Clause: Yeah. Well that's ... that kinda covers our one through five. So just to recap if you ... some of the reasons to take a look at the business system, particularly the accounting system. If you feel like you don't have enough time or you feel like you're being prevented from interpreting that information and making good decisions, that might the ... sophistication or the capabilities of the accounting system might be a culprit or sit at the root cause level. If you're drowning in paper, that might be a good reason to take a look at things. If you're experiencing significant delays or even just routine delays in production, if you're wrestling with inaccurate calculation in the data or if you find that your team is continually trying to build countermeasures to account for the gaps in what the system delivers, those are all great reasons to consider looking at other options. And it just so happens that Doug, that's something you can help people with. Yeah?

Doug Kennedy: Yeah, that's right. We have a team of 15 partners-

Jason Clause: Funny how that works, right?

Doug Kennedy: [crosstalk 00:31:29].

Jason Clause: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about ... about what ... how you might be able to help and how somebody might be able to engage you?

Doug Kennedy: Sure. We've got 30 years of experience doing exactly this kinda work. Troubleshooting problems for business owners of a financial nature, and coming up with solutions that are tailored to the specific set of issues that they have and operating parameters that they're working under. So we've got functional expertise as well as industry expertise that we can bring to bear for business owners in resolving those kinds of issues.

Jason Clause: Right on. Okay. And if somebody's listening to this and is thinking, "You know, I just don't know. I ... Some of those ... I think I'm suffering some of those symptoms, but I just don't know." How might they engage you? How can they get ahold of you and what should they expect if they just wanted to have a conversation about it?

Doug Kennedy: Sure. You can go to our website at CFOs2GO. You can call us at 925-299-4450, tell the receptionist you'd like to speak to a CFO about a problem you've got and you can almost ... You can email me to at [e-mail].

Jason Clause: Excellent. And what would that initial interaction kinda be like?

Doug Kennedy: We'd spend an hour typically with you going over the kinds of concerns that you and just seeing what the next step would be in starting to resolve those problems for you.

Jason Clause: Okay. And what's the cost of something like that?

Doug Kennedy: Well the initial hour is free and then we'll help you develop a ... If you wanna pursue it further, then we can help you develop a game plan for probably doing an assessment of it. Often we'll do an assessment that cost anywhere from 1,500 to 2,500 bucks to produce a report for you that tells you okay, here's the issues that we see. Here's the solutions we recommend and the process for beginning the solutions' methodology.

Jason Clause: Right on. Okay. All right and then I'll make sure to include all your contact details in the show notes for the episode. All right. Well Doug, thanks so much for joining us. I really ... I appreciate you making the time and I feel like the information's very helpful.

Doug Kennedy: Well great. It's been a pleasure joining you today and hopefully, there's some information in here that's of interest to a business owner out there that's struggling with a problem.

Jason Clause: Right on. All right man. Well you take care.

Doug Kennedy: Okay. Thank you.

Jason Clause: Well that's it. That's all I got for you today. I wanna thank Doug for joining me. Well, it was a great episode. I think there's a lot of nuggets in there. If anything that we talked about today resonates with you, like I said, I'm going to include all of Doug's contact information in the show notes. I'd encourage you to reach out to him. Until then, until the next time, I hope my good friend Jesus blesses you with peace in your heart, wisdom in your spirit and a lot of laughter in your belly. You take care now.

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