A Word on Relationships w/ Jessica Massa & Dr. Monica Huerta

From Woke to Work: The Anti-Racist Journey

The idea for the Anti-Racist Journey came to host, Kamala Avila Salmon, this past summer when everyone you know was getting “woke” and almost all the Black people you know were feeling exhausted by all the “woke” talk without action. The journey is arranged as a funnel, based on her past as a marketer - it is meant to mimic the marketing conversion funnel of taking consumers from unaware of your product to deciding to become customers. After sketching it out, her career coach asked her a very simple question: “What about relationships? People need to truly be in COMMUNITY with the groups they are aiming to be allies too.” It was a lightbulb moment for her, and leads us to this episode because the subject of many of her initial writings about race revolved around the importance of interracial friendships where honest conversations about race could take place.

For this episode she invited a couple of her best friends who, as she humbly brags about as “total BOSSES!” Dr. Monica Huerta, author, Co-Director at Organizing Stories, and English and American Studies Professor at Princeton, and Jessica Massa, storyteller, people leader and activist at BuzzFeed. Monica is Mexican-American and Jess is White and of Italian heritage. While they both have done work relevant to the topics of race, inclusion, and equity, they were mostly invited because they have diverse circles of friends of all races and backgrounds, regardless of where they live and work. Note Kamala is NOT THEIR ONLY BLACK FRIEND. Enjoy the episode

Jump straight into:

(00:45) - The silent racism: How genuine relationships with diverse people are needed to do the work - “No amount of love or respect for any specific person of color can, on its own, make you an anti-racist, because racism has always been able to accommodate exceptions.”

(15:47) - The problem with avoiding uncomfortable conversations around racial injustice - “How is it that you’re so ambitious and so successful, yet this is a part of the world that you weren’t moved to think about?”

(24:22) - The importance of aiming for diversity - “You have to make life choices that are going to put you in contact with people who are not like you if you’re white.”

(33:49) - The role of media in a racist system, and how proper representation will inspire uncomfortable but needed conversations - “Being called out for doing something racist doesn’t mean that now I’ve put you in the category in my head of “terrible person I don’t want to interact with”. Those people I don’t even bother to call out, actually.”

(43:45) - How to diversify your friend group without being a performer - “If you think you’re friends with a black person and you’ve only really interacted with them in mostly white spaces, then you’re not actually as close as you think you are.”

(54:33) - The comfort of white supremacy - “By the way, people of color don’t feel comfortable in America, that’s not a thing.”

(59:53) - How to co-create a diverse space that functions as the foundation for a true community - “Be intentional about making sure that the very specific people who are in the room are feeling respected and seen.”

Resources

Monica Huerta PhD

Organizing Stories

Follow Jess on Instagram

BuzzFeed

White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo

Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson

Learn more about Dr. Barbara J. Love’s Liberatory Consciousness Framework

Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to follow Kamala on Instagram to learn more. Subscribe, rate and share this podcast so more people can find it, let’s spread the word!

From Woke to Work is a show produced and hosted by Kamala Avila-Salmon in partnership with Julian Lewis and TJ Bonaventura at StudioPod. Edited at Nodalab, art by Tommy Gomez, and music produced by davecantrap.